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-   -   touge suspension set up (http://www.motoringunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5267)

justintime 03-02-2007 06:28 AM

touge suspension set up
 
sorry if this is a repost.. I searched and didnt come up with anything..

so as far as suspension.. all I have is the koni lowering springs, front and rear braces, 22 madness sway bar, and the endlinks < which dont do anything...

for the canyons I have my rear sway at the stiffest setting but was wondering if anyone else would dissagree at that being the optimal setting.. my roads are very very very tight. so my question is this.. what should I do to my suspension besides coilovers ( thats later) that will help me alot?

my goal is to beat my cousins 350z.. he is running teins with a camber kit and gets a good 3 cars ahead of me everything (keep in mind the roads we carve are pure switchbacks so thats alot) :redface:

hollis3 03-02-2007 06:46 AM

i hate to be the one to ask this... but have you tried driver training - at the autoX or track? that will really help your abilities to use your car to the potential.

justintime 03-02-2007 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollis3 (Post 123960)
i hate to be the one to ask this... but have you tried driver training - at the autoX or track? that will really help your abilities to use your car to the potential.

yes, I've autocrossed three seasons and done a couple of novice schools. I can pull alot out of the car, im sure not all of it..

justintime 03-02-2007 06:55 AM

I should probably add this... yes Ive tried training and done plenty of autox... im looking now to moddify the car to its best ability to handle the switchbacks. I dont have problems with control or understeer, and the car feels very neutral.. I can just feel the limits of the car and id like to increase them..

hollis3 03-02-2007 06:58 AM

how about camber plates? and if the car is feeling neutral, what kinds of limits are you feeling?

glnr13 03-02-2007 07:04 AM

camber plates... that's a big part of what's killin you... start there. like -9 degrees :P jk... i dunno... adjustables for sure. i cant say what camber you're gonna like best. its a personal preference based on tirewear/roads/driving style.

iDiaz 03-02-2007 07:22 AM

First thing's first, ease back on the swaybar. It's a crutch for what's lacking in the rest of your setup, and having your swaybar set that aggressively without focusing on the suspension as an entire system can have some dire consequences if you're not careful. Next up, focus on getting your car aligned properly. The setup you have might look cool and feel nice and tight, but it's probably really far off from optimal.

Most likely, the reason you're experiencing enough understeer to need to set your swaybar to full stiff is that you're lacking any means of adjusting camber up front. As others have said in this thread, get some front camber plates installed. I'm running the RDR/Helix, and I love 'em.

For the rear, you didn't mention having adjustable lower control arms, so you'll need these to bring your rear camber back to a more reasonable setting. I have the Ireland Engineering arms, and they've held up really well so far. You probably have excessive rear camber right now, which only exacerbates the understeering issue by making the rear-end grip a bit more tenaciously.

Once you've got those parts installed, get an alignment from a reputable performance shop. For starters, I would go with this setup for touge, for 17" wheels with 40-45 series tires:

Front:
Toe: 1/16 out (total)
Camber: -2.0 degrees

Rear:
Toe: 1/16 toe-in (total)
Camber: -1.75 degrees

Now that I mentioned it, what wheel and tire combo are you running? You'll have different alignment requirements depending on what tires you're using, as sidewall flex and available contact patch alter the optimal camber setting.

Regarding toe, there are more aggressive settings you could use, but I wouldn't advise it if you want to get decent mileage out of your tires, and maintain stability under braking and at highway speeds.

You'll be blown away by how much that -2 degrees of negative camber up front will help you out in the tightest corners. Your current setup probably starts understeering pretty easily no matter what you do in a tight corner, since you're basically just riding on the outside shoulder of the tire. Negative camber will allow you to use the entire contact patch, dialing out a ton of understeer in the tight stuff.

Once your alignment is set up properly, you can use that swaybar to fine-tune it to your driving style. :tu:

Rally 03-02-2007 07:24 AM

When thinking touge.....you gotta think brake upgrades too....very important :tu:

So what is your brake setup? Any aftermarket pads, fluid, or brake lines?

JuniorMint 03-02-2007 06:27 PM

Have you ever thought about the M7 USS? I have one and it makes the high speed sweepers even more fun

RFIbanez 03-02-2007 06:42 PM

Quote:

and the endlinks < which dont do anything
The main benefit of endlinks is the ability to corner balance your car if you're using coilovers. Some say it helps the car feel more stable in long sweepers also.

What tires are you running? You can have the best suspension setup in the world but if you're running on crappy tires it will be all for nothing.

Brakes! You'll have to slow down sometime, are you on stock brakes?

Slow Paul 03-02-2007 06:59 PM

Dont forget your deer whistle.......you can get them in the children's gun section at Wal-Mart!!!.....;)

justintime 03-02-2007 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollis3 (Post 123968)
how about camber plates? and if the car is feeling neutral, what kinds of limits are you feeling?

it feels alittle unstable on the long fast sweepers... tight turns its a killer.. I would also still like to take alittle more understeer away without having to left foot brake, or scandanavian flick that would be niceee. but I want it alittle more stable at highspeeds too :confused:

justintime 03-02-2007 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruiser (Post 124129)
Dont forget your deer whistle.......you can get them in the children's gun section at Wal-Mart!!!.....;)


haha.. I was actually thinking about installing some... :P

Rally 03-02-2007 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justintime (Post 124202)
it feels alittle unstable on the long fast sweepers... tight turns its a killer.. I would also still like to take alittle more understeer away without having to left foot brake, or scandanavian flick that would be niceee. but I want it alittle more stable at highspeeds too :confused:

95% of tight turn issues are driving skill. I know that after learning about my lack of knowledge concerning tight turns on the auto-x. Despite having a pretty good suspension set up i was pushing through the U-turns. After having someone explain to me the braking and accelerating procedure of such tight turns, i had no problems..

justintime 03-02-2007 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iDiaz (Post 123975)
First thing's first, ease back on the swaybar. It's a crutch for what's lacking in the rest of your setup, and having your swaybar set that aggressively without focusing on the suspension as an entire system can have some dire consequences if you're not careful. Next up, focus on getting your car aligned properly. The setup you have might look cool and feel nice and tight, but it's probably really far off from optimal.

Most likely, the reason you're experiencing enough understeer to need to set your swaybar to full stiff is that you're lacking any means of adjusting camber up front. As others have said in this thread, get some front camber plates installed. I'm running the RDR/Helix, and I love 'em.

For the rear, you didn't mention having adjustable lower control arms, so you'll need these to bring your rear camber back to a more reasonable setting. I have the Ireland Engineering arms, and they've held up really well so far. You probably have excessive rear camber right now, which only exacerbates the understeering issue by making the rear-end grip a bit more tenaciously.

Once you've got those parts installed, get an alignment from a reputable performance shop. For starters, I would go with this setup for touge, for 17" wheels with 40-45 series tires:

Front:
Toe: 1/16 out (total)
Camber: -2.0 degrees

Rear:
Toe: 1/16 toe-in (total)
Camber: -1.75 degrees

Now that I mentioned it, what wheel and tire combo are you running? You'll have different alignment requirements depending on what tires you're using, as sidewall flex and available contact patch alter the optimal camber setting.

Regarding toe, there are more aggressive settings you could use, but I wouldn't advise it if you want to get decent mileage out of your tires, and maintain stability under braking and at highway speeds.

You'll be blown away by how much that -2 degrees of negative camber up front will help you out in the tightest corners. Your current setup probably starts understeering pretty easily no matter what you do in a tight corner, since you're basically just riding on the outside shoulder of the tire. Negative camber will allow you to use the entire contact patch, dialing out a ton of understeer in the tight stuff.

Once your alignment is set up properly, you can use that swaybar to fine-tune it to your driving style. :tu:


and thanks alot for this! very insightful. also, what is the ireland engeneering website? Ive looked but cant find it.. I was looking at the NON-adjustable front camber plates for price issues.. but I lost all my bookmarks :redface:


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