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-   -   Discuss: The TEAMMIGHTYMINIZ Intake Shootout presented by motoring|underground (http://www.motoringunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=702)

iDiaz 01-29-2006 12:52 AM

Discuss: The TEAMMIGHTYMINIZ Intake Shootout presented by motoring|underground
 
What's up? :D

Wong 01-29-2006 01:07 AM

The Artical is great guys!! Job well done!:tu:

iDiaz 01-29-2006 02:12 AM

Thanks Nick! :D

CANYON MINI 01-29-2006 02:51 AM

Nice work guy's ! :tu:

Dr Obnxs 01-29-2006 03:39 AM

Couple comments....
 
First off, lucky guy for such a hot base car. Mine sure isn't the "pick of the litter". I'm a bit jelous.

Second, good job, to a point. More motor parameters should have been logged, to make sure the car was in identical base states. The Motronic system is like a supermodel with a personality disorder. Lots can effect it's behaviours.

Third, I too have not been able to reproduce the same magnitude of gains that are claimed on dynos. I use a G-Tech, not a dyno, to better replicate real-world air flow. The fan on the car is a bit of a help, but definantly not real world. But at least it was the same for each car!

Overall, good job. But if you do it again, get some more data loggin (A/F etc), and do 4-5 pulls per configuration. Lastly return to base so you can make sure that base numbers repeat, and baseline drift isn't an issue.

Two other comments. Make a table Product Cost HP gain, $/hp, torque gain, $/ft-lb

Make an overlay graph. It's not all about peak numbers. It's really about area under the curve.

Matt

J0kER 01-29-2006 03:42 PM

.....:::::great werk::::.....
 
....... the write up is excellent to finally put sum of these non believin' f00ls to rest:D :jayne:

iDiaz 01-29-2006 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J0kER
....... the write up is excellent to finally put sum of these non believin' f00ls to rest:D :jayne:

Thanks, j0ker!

iDiaz 01-29-2006 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
First off, lucky guy for such a hot base car. Mine sure isn't the "pick of the litter". I'm a bit jelous.

Nooo s***. My '04 MINI only managed to pull off 160hp, despite an AGS and exhaust. MINI should teardown Hollis' MCS and find out what the heck they did different, and apply it to the rest of the line. ;)

Quote:

Second, good job, to a point. More motor parameters should have been logged, to make sure the car was in identical base states. The Motronic system is like a supermodel with a personality disorder. Lots can effect it's behaviours.
Even if we had logged it, it would have proven difficult to return the car to absolutely identical base states each time. We feel that resetting that Motronic system before each test, including base line, ensured that the engine was operating with the same fuel/timing maps for each intake.

Quote:

Third, I too have not been able to reproduce the same magnitude of gains that are claimed on dynos. I use a G-Tech, not a dyno, to better replicate real-world air flow. The fan on the car is a bit of a help, but definantly not real world. But at least it was the same for each car!
Your last sentence is exactly what we had in mind. We weren't as interested in absolute numbers as we were in the relative differences between the three intakes and stock, so spending the extra time on a busy dyno day to try to replicate optimal conditions for power would have been trying at best, impossible at worst. I've heard G-Techs aren't that accurate anyway, so I'll stick with our Dyno Dynamics results.

Quote:

Overall, good job. But if you do it again, get some more data loggin (A/F etc), and do 4-5 pulls per configuration. Lastly return to base so you can make sure that base numbers repeat, and baseline drift isn't an issue.
I agree with doing more pulls, but as this is a comparison test of intakes, it doesn't really matter whether we do two or twenty, as long as each intake gets the same number of pulls. Returning to base would have involved installing the AGS (2-3 hours), removing the AGS and taking it back to stock (2-3 hours), and reinstalling the AGS again (2-3 hours), as this is the intake Hollis ended up keeping. That would have taken an entire extra day at the dyno and 4-6 extra hours from our installer, so for time and cost restraints, this really would not have been a reasonable option to pursue.

Quote:

Two other comments. Make a table Product Cost HP gain, $/hp, torque gain, $/ft-lb

Make an overlay graph. It's not all about peak numbers. It's really about area under the curve.

Matt
Hm... I may take you up on that suggestion. Thanks for the advice. :)

Nardo 01-29-2006 06:05 PM

excellent write up Ivan. I know people were anxious to see this, but I'm glad you and the rest of our staff took the time to make sure everything was written up perfectly.

nomonstersinme 01-29-2006 07:31 PM

very good article ivan!
i was actually surpised but glad to see alta as the winner and it sounds like a very fair comparison. I was also really surprised to see how well the M7 AGS did. I was under the impression that intakes couldn't produce that much more HP.
the only thing that confused me was how surprised you were about Hollis's car.. were you surprised that it out performed other 05's or earlier years? 2005+ has 168 hp stock, according to mini.

Nardo 01-29-2006 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomonstersinme
the only thing that confused me was how surprised you were about Hollis's car.. were you surprised that it out performed other 05's or earlier years? 2005+ has 168 hp stock, according to mini.

i guess other people don't get this number (or even close to it) when they do a basline dyno. i was looking over on NAM and everyone else is surprised about Hollis' stock dyno as well.

RFIbanez 01-29-2006 08:19 PM

Great article! Maybe someone put the JCW kit on Hollis' car at the factory by mistake?

iDiaz 01-29-2006 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomonstersinme
the only thing that confused me was how surprised you were about Hollis's car.. were you surprised that it out performed other 05's or earlier years? 2005+ has 168 hp stock, according to mini.

Thanks, y'alls. :D

The published factory specifications for an '05 are 168 hp at the crank. We saw 168 hp at the wheels! The commonly accepted figure for how much power is lost between the engine and the wheels, thanks to a lot of the energy being converted into heat through friction in the drivetrain, is 15%, so that would place Hollis' car at ~198 hp at the crank, or 30 hp higher than what the factory claims his car should make. :eek:

hollis3 01-29-2006 10:06 PM

If I recall correctly, my car had about 1-2HP lower than another 05 with the JCW.

I do not deny that I got very lucky. :tu:

simplygriff 01-30-2006 04:18 PM

What was the build date for your car hollis? Could just be that dark silver... ;)
-G


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