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Safety & Race Preparation Roll cages, harnesses, seats, weight reduction, etc. Anything pertaining to taking your car to the highest level of performance.

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  #1  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:52 PM
Nitrominis Nitrominis is offline
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Default Harness location discussion

Harness Bar for Mini Cooper

http://hardbarusa.com/hardbar/produc...products_id=35


Finally a well engineered harness bar that allows perfect placement of performance belts to hold you securely in the seat so you concentrate 100% on driving. The Cooper bar is stiffer, stronger & lighter than any other bar. The Side Plates are made from CNC aluminum and allows use of the stock belts or any other racing belt with a wrap around loop. The bar is easy to install and removes in minutes. It's made of aerospace aluminum and weighs less than 6 pounds. In addition, the bar stiffens the chassis and does not occupy or require rear seat removal. The Mini Cooper Bar Retains stock seat belt attachments with adjustable height feature. Only minor trimming of plastic B pillar covers. 100% bolt-in easy installation. Compare our bar to the other harness bar out there and you will agree it is the best!

Click the image to open in full size.
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2012, 08:22 PM
jiminni jiminni is offline
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That is really nice!
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  #3  
Old 02-11-2012, 01:21 AM
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You really should look at this http://simpsonraceproducts.com/pdf/S...t_Mounting.pdf

Quote:
The Shoulder Belts should be mounted at an angle of 0 to 20 degrees down from the top of the shoulder
Then take a look at the NASA rulebook.

Quote:
15.0 REQUIRED SAFETY EQUIPMENT
15.5 Driver restraint system

6. The shoulder harness shall be mounted behind the driver and above a line drawn
downward from the shoulder point at an angle of no more than twenty (20)
degrees with the horizontal.
From the Schroth install guide

Quote:
SH O U L D E R BE L T RO U T I N G (A P P L I E S T O A L L R E S T R A I N T T Y P E S)
Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no
more than a 20° angle.
Wreck wearing them the way you have the belts configured and you really will be spineless.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:45 AM
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BTW, the lap belts are wrong too. They should be at a 45 degree angle from the hip to the anchor point outside of plane of the body. Yours go under the seat back, so not outside the plane of the body.

Another data point....NHRA rule book Section 20, page 39/40 Section 10:5 DRIVER RESTRAINT SYSTEM

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Old 02-11-2012, 02:25 AM
Chase Chase is offline
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I too did alot of research before getting my roll bar and harnesses and the mounting angles were nearly unanimous for that type of harness. I know that they can be mounted higher if the harness has a certain "stretch" during impact, but i know the R.J.S. doesnt have that.

However, i am not discounting your knowledge, i just wanted to see if you knew and want you to be safe
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  #6  
Old 02-11-2012, 01:08 PM
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So you are telling us that Simpson, NASA, Schroth, SCCA and the NHRA all have it wrong when it comes to how belts should be mounted?

Seriously people, mount your belts like Lynn does and risk serious damage to yourself and your passenger in the event of an incident. The neck you save may be your own.

Just because the people at Hardbar say it OK does not make it right.
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  #7  
Old 02-11-2012, 03:19 PM
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wow dude, if you've read this thread, i'm pretty sure you realized that all his work is researched, planned, and highly based on the highest standards. The guy is smart and I'm sure he did enough investigating to know if the harness is safe or not. don't call names unless, that's really immature
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  #8  
Old 02-11-2012, 03:30 PM
el diablito el diablito is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnatster View Post
So you are telling us that Simpson, NASA, Schroth, SCCA and the NHRA all have it wrong when it comes to how belts should be mounted?

Seriously people, mount your belts like Lynn does and risk serious damage to yourself and your passenger in the event of an incident. The neck you save may be your own.

Just because the people at Hardbar say it OK does not make it right.
Correct............. last thing you want to do is listen to people who no NOTHING of racing equipment............
FACT

Lynn, if you want to paralyze yourself, go ahead but don't cause others to be crippled because of your lack of knowledge
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2012, 03:42 PM
jiminni jiminni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el diablito View Post
Correct............. last thing you want to do is listen to people who no NOTHING of racing equipment............
FACT

Lynn, if you want to paralyze yourself, go ahead but don't cause others to be crippled because of your lack of knowledge
Hmm.....Jan are not you the one that does not have harnesses in your "street car" has to be able to call it that? Or did you install some for your driver now?
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:31 PM
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This discussion has been moved to it's own thread. Keep the comments civil.
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  #11  
Old 02-11-2012, 05:41 PM
Nitrominis Nitrominis is offline
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Some of you think that pictures show how the belts are when seated in my MINI and the platform mounts and locations? Unless you have personally seen my MINI you do not have any idea about specific's or details like that or for that matter anything else regarding my MINI . You assume things? The mounting platforms are under the seat and floor pan so when I am sitting with the seat in the postion for ME the belts are in the proper position. The position for the pictures are for are just in the current position while I have been doing work on the MINI. The drivers side seat belt arrangement as you see in the pictures is for ease of going in and out of the MINI while working on it instead of laying the belts to the side and hanging out the door on the ground or across my center console. The belt platforms only allow proper belt fitment for me with the seat in one position horizontal to the floor pan. LOL



You may have noticed that I do not talk about the belts only the HARDBAR in the previous postings as it is really the challenge to some because of its design by the manufacure **HARDBARUSA to which I have already commentd to contact them and discuss the technical merits of thier product.
They would love to hear from some of you. I have already preped them on these threads and the comments by members about their product.

**HARDBARUSA
http://www.hardbarusa.com/hardbar/
Telephone: (603) 682-8073


As for racing and showing up at any track well that is another thread another subject and still waiting for a show in my area of some friends of MINIs to bring their MINIs for a run around?
These comments never really have any relevance in threads like this one?

I have successfully passed Technical Inspection at the following tracks. Sear Point, Laguna Seca, Sacramento Raceway and a few SCCA regulated events. Oh and few parking-lot cone dodging days. LOL

I do not go fast enough to require even a harness with any track events I participate in and for the one millionth time....I DO NOT HAVE A RACE CAR MINI!

Moderators here on MU
I am getting use to some with the name calling on the internet. They don't make that mistake in person though!

Last edited by Nitrominis; 02-13-2012 at 09:15 PM.. Reason: removed this: And that's all I have to say on this thread....:cool:
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  #12  
Old 02-11-2012, 05:47 PM
Nitrominis Nitrominis is offline
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HARBARUSA


"REAL, ENGINEERING SOLUTIONS"
http://hardbarusa.com/hardbar/produc...products_id=35


Harness Bar for Mini Cooper $595.00



Finally a well engineered harness bar that allows perfect placement of performance belts to hold you securely in the seat so you concentrate 100% on driving. The Cooper bar is stiffer, stronger & lighter than any other bar. The Side Plates are made from CNC aluminum and allows use of the stock belts or any other racing belt with a wrap around loop. The bar is easy to install and removes in minutes. It's made of aerospace aluminum and weighs less than 6 pounds. In addition, the bar stiffens the chassis and does not occupy or require rear seat removal. The Mini Cooper Bar Retains stock seat belt attachments with adjustable height feature. Only minor trimming of plastic B pillar covers. 100% bolt-in easy installation. Compare our bar to the other harness bar out there and you will agree it is the best!




Click the image to open in full size.
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  #13  
Old 02-11-2012, 06:01 PM
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Keep this thread on topic with technical discussions. There is important information to be shared here.
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  #14  
Old 02-11-2012, 06:21 PM
el diablito el diablito is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrominis View Post
HARBARUSA


"REAL, ENGINEERING SOLUTIONS"
http://hardbarusa.com/hardbar/produc...products_id=35


Harness Bar for Mini Cooper $595.00



Finally a well engineered harness bar that allows perfect placement of performance belts to hold you securely in the seat so you concentrate 100% on driving. The Cooper bar is stiffer, stronger & lighter than any other bar. The Side Plates are made from CNC aluminum and allows use of the stock belts or any other racing belt with a wrap around loop. The bar is easy to install and removes in minutes. It's made of aerospace aluminum and weighs less than 6 pounds. In addition, the bar stiffens the chassis and does not occupy or require rear seat removal. The Mini Cooper Bar Retains stock seat belt attachments with adjustable height feature. Only minor trimming of plastic B pillar covers. 100% bolt-in easy installation. Compare our bar to the other harness bar out there and you will agree it is the best!




Click the image to open in full size.
Please consult NASA, SCCA etc before purchasing equipment which may OR may not be safe for you.............

http://nasaproracing.com/

http://www.scca.com/

don't take anyones word on your safety!
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  #15  
Old 02-11-2012, 06:33 PM
gnatster's Avatar
gnatster gnatster is offline
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It is really very simple.

Every sanctioning body and belt maker recommend the same mounting for shoulder belts. To reiterate that would to bar behind the seat that where the belts are in range of horizontal to no more than a max of 20 degrees down.

There is not a single instance of a sanctioning body or belt maker saying the belts can installed with the angle greater than horizontal from the shoulders.

Now you might say your shoulders would be horizontal to the bar when seated. That leads to even more wrong with your setup as pictured. The seat openings for the belts . The bottom of the opening should be at the shoulder level. The way yours are pictured currently the openings are well below the level of the harness bar.

It's your neck and back. You can snap them like a twig if you want. However, showing these pictures and then proclaiming NASCAR approves does a disservice to all. There are people out there that believe what you do is right Lynn. In some cases it is. In this case it is terribly wrong. I would hate for another person to emulate you and get killed, or worse. paralyzed from the neck down.

Do more research on proper belt positioning.

It does NOT matter that it is not in race conditions. If you are going to use race type safety equipment, use it correctly. The life you save may just be your own.
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So much has been said by so many people who know so little about what’s going on, that it’s truly breathtaking to contemplate. Peter M. De Lorenzo


Last edited by gnatster; 02-11-2012 at 06:40 PM..
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