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  #31  
Old 09-28-2011, 04:30 PM
ScottinBend ScottinBend is offline
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There are properly "stanced' cars and then there are those guys who simply cut their coils and bounce down the road.

There is good and bad examples on both sides, but it doesn't minimize any one persons experiences with either. There are very few folks locally that have a well done stanced car, most, unfortunately, are of the cut coil variety.

And for me......never understood the whole slammed thing anyway.
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  #32  
Old 09-28-2011, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottinBend View Post
There are properly "stanced' cars and then there are those guys who simply cut their coils and bounce down the road.

There are just as many improperly done performance cars. The existence of poorly executed cars on either side isn't enough to deem either side "retarded". You're bound to get people "doing it wrong" in all aspects of car tuning.

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And for me......never understood the whole slammed thing anyway.
Just an aesthetics thing. Cars look better when their wheels fill the wheel wells...that's fact. That's why when the artists first do the car renderings the cars are low and there's no wheel gap. It looks better.
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  #33  
Old 09-28-2011, 04:43 PM
Chase Chase is offline
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that is why when you look at the adds for MINI. they are always lowered in the image haha. and have shadow affects around the underside


Yeah, i know a lot or people who buy coilovers and camber plates, lower the car just a bit, and think they have a set up car. Like rally is saying, most people who set up there cars for race or track usually end up making the car handle worse than factory settings. It takes a lot of time and research to properly set up a car for "racing"

I have been through 5 sets of coilovers now trying to find the best solution for my personal taste in drivability, but i am still trying to set the car up properly

Justintime-care to jump in here?
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  #34  
Old 09-28-2011, 04:46 PM
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Click the image to open in full size.

Flush fitment, small tires, no wheelgap. It's aesthetically better. Does it perform better than a track car? No.

Now we're just waiting on Mr. Haggis to enlighten us on why performance tuning is any better than stance tuning. I'm excited.
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  #35  
Old 09-28-2011, 04:56 PM
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It defeats me why anyone would care about the amount of time it takes them to get around a circular road in a car that looks ugly.

It defeats me why anyone would hold the performance of a sub-200hp FWD economy car in reverence as if it were paramount. It's a cute, slow, 1.6L car that handles decently well. Who cares if you don't modify it to be some kind of supposed race car?
Sort of my view on it, I've had a 400hp turbo awd "rocketship", (Eagle Talon TSI AWD) now I have a semi-manual fwd gas sipper 4 door family sedan (2006 VW GLI). I'm ~30, have a child, don't care if my car is "super fast" nor do I want to deal with track fee's and brakes and tires etc.

I put a set of coils on, dialed it down, picked up some craigslist wheels and have fun driving my car. I like how it looks and thats what matters to me.
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  #36  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:08 PM
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A true car enthusiast would realize that both track cars and stance cars are cool and should be appreciated for different reasons. I'm not sure why anyone would think that your taste has to be mutually exclusive between the two
Indeed.

If I wanted a "race car" I'd buy an Evo, strip it, cage it and rip it.

but also another point others brought up, in my age, having had a suspended license, having threw money away on insurance premiums, catching the attention of the police for my "racey" looking car etc was not worth it.

having a car that can do 0-60 in 5.7 seconds instead of 6.7 seconds doesn't make a difference when I am just going to be slamming on my brakes for the line of traffic in front of me.

Also my car has ~108,000 miles all put on by me, I commute ~25,000 miles a year. In New England, in some terrible conditions, year round. People over estimate how much ground clearance you need to have a perfectly fine functioning car. I can take an offramp at 55, I can also do 85mph in a straight line down the highway. My car is peppy (250hp and 280ft/lbs), has nice brakes (Hawk HPS on 12.8" discs) and I have Koni Adjustable struts in my coilovers. all in all I feel like I have the best of both worlds, the only thing better would be some nice Bagyard Airride, but at the end of the day I have more fun in my "stanced" car than I did in my track car.

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  #37  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:11 PM
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The fact is it is a different realm of auto enthusiasm. None is better than the other (Except DONKS, but we'll just not talk about them) lol. No one has stolen my jam, and trust me I appreciate witty banter just as much as the next guy, but banter that attacks cultures is shameful and gross. If that's your type of banter, then I don't want any part of it. Stating that you don't have ovals is just another generalization. And whether you believe that or not is another thing, but throwing it out in response to a debate doesn't come across as playful. It comes out as demeaning.

The truth is the Brits basically started the oval tracks a long time before, and you still use them today. NASCAR is a MAJOR hit in the UK. And you have entire communities based around oval track racing of various types. Only reason I lash so hard towards these comments it that I've heard them time and time again and the stereotype is offensive to Americans just as much as it is to your own oval racing community.

Now that that's behind us, lets discuss stance. Your friend's car may be "stanced" but that doesn't mean it's done correctly. Care to share his setup? We have some guys here who can tell you where he went wrong. Then after he spends the thousands to correct it as many members here like rally have done you could take a joy ride in a car that is properly stanced and get back to us with your new opinion.

The RWB discussion is moot. No matter how you cook it, those cars are definitely stanced. Now, as Chase and Rally are trying to convey, that stance doesn't mean it's not also "set-up" as you like to call it. Stance is the position or bearing of the body. Doesn't mean a race car doesn't have a stance. I don't think the RWB drivers would become irate if you commented how much you loved the stance of their cars.

Click the image to open in full size.

Has no stance? Come on... the stance may be a factor of the race setup, but it has a low, wide, aggressive stance none the less.



Now for the good news. I DO agree with you that some low cars are horrible and worthless. I think we all agree with that. We are not in any way trying to argue with you that all cars that are low are awesome. Proper low cars are awesome because they have taken the time to make aesthetics mix with performance

and yes.. cat pictures.
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:20 PM
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:25 PM
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Two words for you... Personal Opinion.

First time reading this thread and I have to say that you have some way of making an introduction.
Yet again you are placing judgement on any vehicle that has had work done to it as being poor quality like every case is the same. You don't know the shops, the skills, or the attention/knowledge said mechanics may have. You simply state any car to be "Set-Up or Stanced" outside of your circle of life is most likely of poor build quality.

Hmm.. let's see, if you want people to respect your opinion and choices, you should respect those of others.

I live in the new york metro area, and drive my mini regularly, it has been an ongoing project of mine for 6 years now. The car is tuned, has a good base of performance mods, and all the suspension work was installed, and aligned at a Porsche Race Specific shop. Their work is no way of poor quality.

My suspension is KW Varient3's with different spring rates from KW, Vorshlogg Camber plates, rear upper & lower control arms, adjustable endlinks and I must say the car is dialed in nicely. I have my fair share of spirited runs and the roads I travel on are far from perfect.

It's far from useless.
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  #40  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:35 PM
Chase Chase is offline
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No, Naki-san would not become irate if you mentioned his car being stanced.

Hence him joining forces with Hellaflush/Illest here in the U.S. They are going to be sharing the same workshop essentially.

Naki-san also talks about getting his car to look low and wide in his interviews with almost everyone. Looks are the most important factor for Naki-san. Just look at my quote in my sig.
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  #41  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:39 PM
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Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe

A perfect track set up for some can never hold up for street. RACECAR
A perfect stance set up for some can never hold up on track. STANCE
A perfect autox set up for some may never hold up on street or track. AUTOX
A perfect canyon set up for some may never hold up on certain tracks. TOUGE
A perfect drift set up for some may never hold up on the street. DRIFTING
A perfect drag set up for some may never hold up on street or turn well. DRAG

Is everything else in between not valid? Of course it is, to every individuals discretion.
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  #42  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:40 PM
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Comments like these make you sound rather Dafty my friend, and ignorant


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mine is a race car, thats why, and darling we dont have ovals, us Europeans know how to used corners in both directions i think its called a track

once you stance a mini it becomes totally useless, i can still take mine to work, shops and use it day to day and it even goes over speed bumps, and the best bit, tis on real coilovers too.

i think there dafties, where i live the roads are meant for hooning, its all country back roads and twists turns and bumps

and yes, i am an ignorant self righteous prick, but hey i dont deny it
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  #43  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:48 PM
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theres a good reason one road tester from evo described my car as one of the best handling hot hatches he had ever driven
That's cool.... neat that your modified for track car which already handles well is ONE of the better small hatchbacks he has driven. If he rolled in and told you it was better than a Porsche GT3 then I'd be impressed.

Both "racekor" and "stance" types have great and bad builds. I'm sure there are just as many people with track cars that put in coils, dial in a height and assume that's best. I would guess 1/50 actually go to a real alignment shop and have their car corner balanced and aligned.

I really feel like this thread is no debate, you had your mind made up long ago to not accept other peoples decisions on how they build their car.

I love all cars provided they are made w/ a clear vision and goal. I make fun of cars w/ 380 stickers and bolt ons as they are obviously not tracking towards a goal, they are just buying every clearance part at autozone/ebay and cluttering their car.

IDK, I don't care really, I just think its crazy how personally you take other peoples decisions.
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  #44  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:58 PM
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I agree with you Shadow, there is no debate to be had with Haggis as he came into this debate boasting his claims with a closed mind for personal gratification.

Please provide a name of supposed Road tester for Evo, and an actual testimonial of his claim or I call this comment as being erroneous


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theres a good reason one road tester from evo described my car as one of the best handling hot hatches he had ever driven
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  #45  
Old 09-28-2011, 06:09 PM
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