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Accelerating From engines to gearboxes--tuning the parts that make your car go.

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  #1  
Old 12-11-2011, 03:46 PM
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Haggis Haggis is offline
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Default Sprintex, Rotrex, TVS, Turbo or ?

Seems a lot of people are lowering comp for the sprintex now ? isnt this going against the idea of it being a simple bolt on kit, this means its not like the turbo and rotrex and really needs the engine built for it,

it should also be pointed out that KAVs motor sport made 260 whp on a stock charger, all they had was a midly build oem engine, no aftermarket pistons or parts used, and a KAVs head
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:46 PM
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Not ness. If I remember the low compression pistons were in the motor already, not installed for the Sprintex, I'm not really sure though. As far as the bolt on issue, stock compression or even high compression is just fine with the stock 70mm pulley, your still talking about only 15 to 16 psi boost, so no issues at all. If you would decide to go with a smaller pulley (64mm = 18 to 19psi, 60mm = 19 to 20psi) then like any major raise in boost you would want to do your engine accordingly.

The old rule of thumb with our engines is, no more than 20psi on stock internals, but you are pushing the limits and things may break, Sprintex, Rotrex, Turbo, your still talking about a lot of boost. Face it if you want to build a high compression motor and feed it 20psi or more, go ahead, but you better build the rest of the motor to support it, wouldn't matter which product is making the boost.

And still to this date of the 2 motors that I know of that failed, neither of them had to do with the amount of boost. And common sense just says that yes a lower compression ratio mixed with a large amount of boost would put less stress on a motor.

And as far as the overall HP is concerned, when it comes to our cars, unless you've done it, people tend to get lost in the "do a mod, make a big jump in HP" thing. People are so used seeing pretty substantial gains with simple mods, pulley, header, exhaust, you know the stuff everybody does. The only problem with that is after you start getting over the 230 to 240whp mark, the gains are nowhere near a much of a jump and tend to be far more tedious and expensive.
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:13 PM
el diablito el diablito is offline
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Originally Posted by BlwnAway View Post
Not ness. If I remember the low compression pistons were in the motor already, not installed for the Sprintex. As far as the bolt on issue, stock compression or even high compression is just fine with the stock 70mm pulley, your still talking about only 15 to 16 psi boost, so no issues at all. If you would decide to go with a smaller pulley (64mm = 18 to 19psi, 60mm = 19 to 20psi) then like any major raise in boost you would want to do your engine accordingly.

The old rule of thumb with our engines is, no more than 20psi on stock internals, but you are pushing the limits and things may break, Sprintex, Rotrex, Turbo, your still talking about a lot of boost. Face it if you want to build a high compression motor and feed it 20psi or more, go ahead, but you better build the rest of the motor to support it also, wouldn't matter which product is making the boost.

And still to this date of the 2 motors that I know of that failed, neither of them had to do with the amount of boost. And common sense just says that yes a lower compression ratio mixed with a large amount of boost would have to put less stress on a motor.
there have been MULTIPLE failures of engines with the sprintex ALL over the world at those pressures so it's NOT OK as some suggest. There is a HUGE difference between 20psi of boost at 83c vs 34c IATs............heat kills things and bad tuning kills things. When you have these 2 present it narrows your window of margin for error. Tell me which motor will last longer.....one that is setup to run below ambient temps or one that is way over ambient given the same amount of boost and hp? (I've started a run at 34c and finished at 20psi of boost at 19c this WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH A SPRINTEX on methanol)

Why do you think we offer oil coolers and radiators and fuel system upgrades with our kits?
Because we are the only ones who have track tested this in all types of conditions. NO ONE ELSE has done this. There is a reason our kits are more expensive, because all the parts are there to make it safer. Anything can and WILL break but not putting these types of stop gaps in is irresponsible to the consumer. There were many issues we had with the twinscrew kit and that's why we aren't selling it. We didn't build it to 1/4mi race either, it was for a true track replacement for the M45

I know you mean well but you just don't have the proper data to make proper statements about this subject.
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BlwnAway View Post
Not ness. If I remember the low compression pistons were in the motor already, not installed for the Sprintex, I'm not really sure though. As far as the bolt on issue, stock compression or even high compression is just fine with the stock 70mm pulley, your still talking about only 15 to 16 psi boost, so no issues at all. If you would decide to go with a smaller pulley (64mm = 18 to 19psi, 60mm = 19 to 20psi) then like any major raise in boost you would want to do your engine accordingly.

The old rule of thumb with our engines is, no more than 20psi on stock internals, but you are pushing the limits and things may break, Sprintex, Rotrex, Turbo, your still talking about a lot of boost. Face it if you want to build a high compression motor and feed it 20psi or more, go ahead, but you better build the rest of the motor to support it, wouldn't matter which product is making the boost.

And still to this date of the 2 motors that I know of that failed, neither of them had to do with the amount of boost. And common sense just says that yes a lower compression ratio mixed with a large amount of boost would put less stress on a motor.

And as far as the overall HP is concerned, when it comes to our cars, unless you've done it, people tend to get lost in the "do a mod, make a big jump in HP" thing. People are so used seeing pretty substantial gains with simple mods, pulley, header, exhaust, you know the stuff everybody does. The only problem with that is after you start getting over the 230 to 240whp mark, the gains are nowhere near a much of a jump and tend to be far more tedious and expensive.
This way of think kills me.

The 20psi comment kills me. There is a big difference between 20psi on a GT35R and 20PSI on 16g. 20psi isnt just 20psi. The CFM difference between a 16G or a 20G or 14B or a GT28R,GT30R,GT35R,GT37R, 6262,6566,6765 ect ect. at 20psi is substantial. So the "common" knowledge is not knowledge at all.

Boost is not what kills a motor, detonation is. I know guys that are running 18PSI in STOCK d16's on 30R's and 35R's without a issue. The fastest way to kill a motor is the tune.

I run a high compression motor in my EVO, 10:5:1 on 91 pump gas at 20+psi. Not a hint of knock. Its even better on race gas , don't really need to built the motor to do it, hell S2000's run the stock high compression on the stock motor with BIG turbos all the time. make 400+ hp without even trying. Its the tune that keeps those motors alive....compression doesn't put as much stress on a motor as ONE DEGREE OF TIMING ADVANCE does. You also have to remember that boost, cams, intakes, BVH's all change the DYNAMIC compression of the motor. In a boosted motor static compression isnt as big as a deal as dynamic is.
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by el diablito View Post
there have been MULTIPLE failures of engines with the sprintex ALL over the world at those pressures so it's NOT OK as some suggest. There is a HUGE difference between 20psi of boost at 83c vs 34c IATs............heat kills things and bad tuning kills things. When you have these 2 present it narrows your window of margin for error. Tell me which motor will last longer.....one that is setup to run below ambient temps or one that is way over ambient given the same amount of boost and hp? (I've started a run at 34c and finished at 20psi of boost at 19c this WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH A SPRINTEX on methanol)

Why do you think we offer oil coolers and radiators and fuel system upgrades with our kits?
Because we are the only ones who have track tested this in all types of conditions. NO ONE ELSE has done this. There is a reason our kits are more expensive, because all the parts are there to make it safer. Anything can and WILL break but not putting these types of stop gaps in is irresponsible to the consumer. There were many issues we had with the twinscrew kit and that's why we aren't selling it. We didn't build it to 1/4mi race either, it was for a true track replacement for the M45

I know you mean well but you just don't have the proper data to make proper statements about this subject.
Speaking of the 1/4 Jan, I love how I ran one of the fastest MPH at 4600ft and it was totally ignored lol. Even uploaded the video...wasn't even on slicks. This was with the stock M45....and a RMW mods.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:42 PM
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Here we go again, speed reading, I've already admited to being nothing more than a backyard mechanic and not having q lot of tech savy, but please tell me how these statements are incorrect or at the very least cautionary:

1. If you put 20psi of boost on a MINI engine, you're pushing the limits.

2. If you're going to run a high compression piston and 20psi of boost in an engine (again MINI) you should build accordingly.

3. Of the 2 failures "THAT I KNOW OF" they were not boost related

But I do want to thank you for again making the point that IF YOU USE THE SPRINTEX IN A MODIFIED STATE ie. smaller pulley, there arw things to consider, and according to Jan himself, all of those multiple failures that he knows of have to do with modified units, and his heat problems with the pre production unit(s) were also using the smaller pulley

So to answer the original question, IN MY OPINION and TO MY KNOWLEDGE, using the kit as designed is still a viable replacement and yes is a bolt in, and I have had no S/C related problems with MY Sprintex w/ the 70mm pulley except for traction.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BlwnAway View Post
Here we go again, speed reading, I've already admited to being nothing more than a backyard mechanic and not having q lot of tech savy, but please tell me how these statements are incorrect or at the very least cautionary:

1. If you put 20psi of boost on a MINI engine, you're pushing the limits.

2. If you're going to run a high compression piston and 20psi of boost in an engine (again MINI) you should build accordingly.

3. Of the 2 failures "THAT I KNOW OF" they were not boost related

But I do want to thank you for again making the point that IF YOU USE THE SPRINTEX IN A MODIFIED STATE ie. smaller pulley, there arw things to consider, and according to Jan himself, all of those multiple failures that he knows of have to do with modified units, and his heat problems with the pre production unit(s) were also using the smaller pulley

So to answer the original question, IN MY OPINION and TO MY KNOWLEDGE, using the kit as designed is still a viable replacement and yes is a bolt in, and I have had no S/C related problems with MY Sprintex w/ the 70mm pulley except for traction.
Didnt speed read THAT time lol, I'm at work so I think I just answered a little fast.

1. 20psi on a 14b, 35R, M45 all are different. Like I said CFM is the major factor along with tune....Ill put it this way I wouldn't be worried about running 20psi on a stock MINI motor WITH ME tuning minus the surge you will probly see with a bigger turbo, and not being able to get it into the motor until higher RPM's, I would just kill some of the timing, and run a 11.3ish AFr wouldnt make as much power but it would be safe, also wouldn't knock out the bearings as fast with less timing. Be a little higher on the EGT side though.

2. H/C is H/C doenst matter if its a MINI or a honda. If you are going to go far enough to change the pistons might as well change the rods and bearings also so ill agree.

3. Jan is going to be the guy on that I let him get back to you on that.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:27 PM
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again, it's just not true.........you CANNOT SAFELY run the sprintex with a 70mm pulley ........on stock tune etc........LOOK AT THEIR OWN DYNO CHART>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't understand that then you shouldn't be tuning your car NOR ANYONE associated with thinking that is OK..........

can you run it on stock tune........sure you can the stock ecu will do everything in its power to save the engine.......it's just a matter of time though........
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:08 PM
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Fair enough, I wouldn't be able to attest to that personally since I havn't had stock tune in years.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:41 PM
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What I don't get is why so few have taken every step available to negate heat as an issue in builds. Thermal coating for example. We showed almost a 14.5% reduction in temps between cylinder and head on an air cooled engine with coatings in the ports and combustion chamber.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:51 PM
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What I don't get is why so few have taken every step available to negate heat as an issue in builds. Thermal coating for example. We showed almost a 14.5% reduction in temps between cylinder and head on an air cooled engine with coatings in the ports and combustion chamber.
it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:15 PM
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(I've started a run at 34c and finished at 20psi of boost at 19c this WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH A SPRINTEX on methanol)

Why do you think we offer oil coolers and radiators and fuel system upgrades with our kits?
Because we are the only ones who have track tested this in all types of conditions. NO ONE ELSE has done this. There is a reason our kits are more expensive, because all the parts are there to make it safer. Anything can and WILL break but not putting these types of stop gaps in is irresponsible to the consumer. There were many issues we had with the twinscrew kit and that's why we aren't selling it. We didn't build it to 1/4mi race either, it was for a true track replacement for the M45
I have 2 questions..

What charger system and intercooler(w/o meth) are you using that does 34c to 19c @ 20psi?

Secondly WhereTF are these kits to purchase and how much are they? I wasn't aware you had any for sale or Shanne or D!CK would probably be sporting one already.


And not for nothing, as I see it, talking/comparing something without it being used by the general public is utterly pointless, as the Sprintex is no longer in a "controlled environment". Jan at this point I get irritated because if you got the shit, then sell it, if not don't preach how good it is to other options out there already that's already under a microscope. This is coming from a neutral person who is looking for a replacement charger for R53 depending on the cost, I'd rather not have to buy twice because I've been waiting for something to be released.

I'm sure If I had ViPEC, Sprintex, along with supporting mods and you tuned it I'd be running like a top even on a 60mm BECAUSE I know you are very capable of dialing it in easily. The question is do you want to let Sprintex succeed or do you want to blow my car up blaming my setup? Let me answer this, putting all politics aside you know you can make Sprintex shine. Allan/Zach put that SMurF mobile thru very hot and hard low speed competition without a glitch, I think that alone warrants it's reliability at least for 30 minute sessions or streetability.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:19 PM
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I suppose. I know if I ever get the funds to start my build I'll be coating everything I can. Pistons are $38 each and a head is only $348 including intake and exhaust ports so it's not prohibitive.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:47 PM
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I suppose. I know if I ever get the funds to start my build I'll be coating everything I can. Pistons are $38 each and a head is only $348 including intake and exhaust ports so it's not prohibitive.
I can do thermal coatings on header, intake manifold, CC, pistons, skirts, valves for ~$1k. That along with M7 Aerogel crap and properly vented hood would considerably bring down temps.

Swaintech, somewhat close to me, I've used them for years and I get good discounts over the prices listed in the link below. Will I use them on the R53, NO but I should probably consider it, when I get a head.
http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10971
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:48 PM
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