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  #31  
Old 03-11-2008, 05:40 PM
Zoomer Zoomer is offline
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I am resurrecting this thread because of a Reagan quote, "There you go again.."

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBu...20080214d.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...zbollah214.xml
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080214...ollahnasrallah
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...0C49B61B88.htm
http://www.nysun.com/article/71378
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/954733.html
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  #32  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:12 PM
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I don't think they know what they're getting themselves into. Israel is already embarrassed about having "lost" the last conflict vs Lebanon, and I doubt they'll make the same mistake twice.
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  #33  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFIbanez View Post
Bush had nothing to do with this...get your facts straight

This has been going on forever. Israel is sick of these terrorist...lets see if these liberal Euro cowards help out this time or leave it to the US again.


Don't get me started.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -Pascal.
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  #34  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:22 PM
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That is true! This time around the all-out war is against the Jews in the world, and not only Israel.. the FBI is stepped up on their alert for defending the Jews in the US (Synagogues and the like). I just don't get what the point of all the fighting among World Governments is.

A lot of the problem IS the World Governments. I'm Israeli, and it's sad to see all the World Governments at odds with each other, when the citizens are not in alignment with all that goes on behind the scenes anway.

I wouldn't mind a visit to Israel these days, just to visit all my relatives. I think it would be kind of neat! I just hope that someday, someday, someday we all live in peace. I don't think it will be in my lifetime, and I hope the world we don't lose as a result of the attempt.

Good point though, Ivan.

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I don't think they know what they're getting themselves into. Israel is already embarrassed about having "lost" the last conflict vs Lebanon, and I doubt they'll make the same mistake twice.
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  #35  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:25 PM
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We should probably note that this thread may get heated - and let's keep it on a political view perspective no personal bashing against one another. This could get ugly though ...viewer discretion is advised...

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Don't get me started.
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  #36  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:31 PM
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Agreed. Know here that some people may catch a shot to the nose, but remember we are friends here. When we step away from this conversation I will willingly have a drink with any of you. Politics and religion are HARD topics that often cause wars like that which this thread was started over.

No matter how we disagree in parts of this let us be better men (and women) by not allowing those differences to seperate us as a community.
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  #37  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:33 PM
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It all boils down to disputed territory. Muslims and Jews share the same holy land, and they both believe it is their religious duty to occupy the land they hold sacred. As long as Islam and Judaism exist, the conflict will not end.
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  #38  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:46 PM
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This is not true. Muslims and Jews do NOT share the same holy land. Muslims have Mecca, Jews have Jerusalem. There was a Dome of the Rock that was built in the same place (and which was Israeli land at one point) as the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem. That is why there is a conflict. It goes beyond that. The fact is that the ones with the conflict are the Palestinians. They are JORDANIAN! They were born in JORDAN!! Jordan doesn't want anything to do with the Palestinians, and they turn their cheek when the Palestinians have their own uprising.

The problem is that there are certain countries (Syria, Iran, Iraq) have hostile Governments that want Israel to be wiped off the face of the map. It has very little to do with the religions of Judaism and Muslim. Take, for example, Turkey. The Turks accept and befriend Israel. They share intelligence and army vendorship between the two countries, yet they are very close and very good friends and they are, for the most part, MUSLIM.

Another example is Egypt. Egypt was, at one time, one of Israel's biggest archrivals. Now, they are one of Israel's strongest Arabic friends. Egypt is not exempt from terror as caused by the Palestinians and their associated militant groups.

Who ended up fleeing when the Brits gave up the Palestinian territory? Palestine was never a State - and was owned by the Brits. When it was up to who would stay, the Arabs fled. Then, a war came and the Israelis wiped out the conflict.

Today I believe there should be a change in most World governments, including Israel. It is coming - the change. It will not take time, since the behind-the-scenes-behind-the-curtain back-office politics are coming to light. It is not based on what Ben Gurion or Dayan or Meyer or Herzl had in mind when they put a strong country such as Israel together. However - they will do what it takes to keep themselves on the map.

Overall, the war in Lebanon was not an actual loss - it was more of a disgrace. No-one won, no-one lost - they need to simply get to a place where they can all bargain and discuss. The Syrians need to learn from their Arab neighbours that they should learn to accept. Israel isn't going anywhere. It's also the reason why technology is so advanced in the world.



Quote:
Originally Posted by iDiaz View Post
It all boils down to disputed territory. Muslims and Jews share the same holy land, and they both believe it is their religious duty to occupy the land they hold sacred. As long as Islam and Judaism exist, the conflict will not end.
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  #39  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDiaz View Post
It all boils down to disputed territory. Muslims and Jews share the same holy land, and they both believe it is their religious duty to occupy the land they hold sacred. As long as Islam and Judaism exist, the conflict will not end.

Don't leave the Christians out. The only reason that is not an issue as they are allowed access to their sacred sights unharassed by the Israili government.

Now it is not that any one or all of these groups need to be gone, it is the will of any one of them to see another one gone. THAT is the issue. Now we (as a christian nation) side with the Jews of Israel because they will allow us that access to the Christian holy sites. I was raised Jewish so I have a different perspecive than most of America that sees the "christian norm" as the general reality of the world. It is not. Don't think to blame the Muslims and Jews alone without carring the weight of your own crosses.

All three of those religions are at fault for the situation in the middle-east and there will be no peace till all three can decide to do it together.

Now colonialism had a good hand in the matter by redrawing the boundaries of the territories held by the indigenous peoples of that area and others. The new "countries" now have multitudes of previously waring groups with in each of several bordering countries. How can one not have war with logic like that?

The whole thing is a mess. I am happy I am not the man with my finger on the proverbial button as my patience would have expired long ago and there would be no shortage of radioatcive glass in the world.

The rich Arabs have the means but not the will to stop the religious fanatics from the Muslim side. The Jews are in a corner and I cannot blame them for fighting as fierce as they do. The west is steered by the media into apathy and resentment of anyone willing to take a daring chance that they can manage to bring peace by killing a few war mongers in the area.

I am happy to not have or want children. I think that far worse will come of this before it ends.
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  #40  
Old 03-11-2008, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoomer View Post
This is not true. Muslims and Jews do NOT share the same holy land. Muslims have Mecca, Jews have Jerusalem. There was a Dome of the Rock that was built in the same place (and which was Israeli land at one point) as the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem. That is why there is a conflict. It goes beyond that. The fact is that the ones with the conflict are the Palestinians. They are JORDANIAN! They were born in JORDAN!! Jordan doesn't want anything to do with the Palestinians, and they turn their cheek when the Palestinians have their own uprising.

The problem is that there are certain countries (Syria, Iran, Iraq) have hostile Governments that want Israel to be wiped off the face of the map. It has very little to do with the religions of Judaism and Muslim. Take, for example, Turkey. The Turks accept and befriend Israel. They share intelligence and army vendorship between the two countries, yet they are very close and very good friends and they are, for the most part, MUSLIM.

Another example is Egypt. Egypt was, at one time, one of Israel's biggest archrivals. Now, they are one of Israel's strongest Arabic friends. Egypt is not exempt from terror as caused by the Palestinians and their associated militant groups.

Who ended up fleeing when the Brits gave up the Palestinian territory? Palestine was never a State - and was owned by the Brits. When it was up to who would stay, the Arabs fled. Then, a war came and the Israelis wiped out the conflict.

Today I believe there should be a change in most World governments, including Israel. It is coming - the change. It will not take time, since the behind-the-scenes-behind-the-curtain back-office politics are coming to light. It is not based on what Ben Gurion or Dayan or Meyer or Herzl had in mind when they put a strong country such as Israel together. However - they will do what it takes to keep themselves on the map.

Overall, the war in Lebanon was not an actual loss - it was more of a disgrace. No-one won, no-one lost - they need to simply get to a place where they can all bargain and discuss. The Syrians need to learn from their Arab neighbours that they should learn to accept. Israel isn't going anywhere. It's also the reason why technology is so advanced in the world.

Many good points.

Mentioning Jordan reminds me of the one BIG issue amongst Jews. Zionists view even Jordan as their land for the taking. THIS is something that I take issue with. Peace cannot be reached under those terms.
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  #41  
Old 03-11-2008, 07:18 PM
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Good points, Zoomer. Ask any Palestinian though, and they will say that it's their territory and that the land is sacred to them, whether it is historically or not.

Good points from you too, Xanthus. I probably should have said Judeo-Christian, but I figured that was pretty much a given. I'm not Christian though, so I don't take responsibility for any of the parties involved. Part of me feels we should let foreign nations handle their own problems, but then I remember that we're part of a global economy, and war breaking out in the region that supplies us with most of our energy would be devastating to our way of life, so sticking our nose in it is a necessary evil.
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  #42  
Old 03-11-2008, 07:28 PM
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I don't even know if we are being told the truth anymore. There's still a part of me that believes in the Conspiracy theory. Big Business runs the world, and it's all a game of who sunk whose Battleship...

"You Sunk my Battleship"
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  #43  
Old 03-11-2008, 09:21 PM
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...that peace just dones't matter enough. When people are blinded by their religious beliefs anything anyone outside their group has to say that is contradictory to their thoughts are either lies or blasphemy. The big picture is gone for now. But nature has its own way of cleansing itself, and it will. Unfortunately many innocent people of all religions will be lost in the process. Along with all of their ideas and future contributions.

We should endeavor to follow the great philosopher Dalton in the movie "Roadhouse"-

"Be nice."

(Maybe it doesn't matter since the Mayans think we'll all be dead on 2012 anyway.)
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  #44  
Old 03-11-2008, 10:21 PM
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I know the comment is old, but I'd just like to say that "the Muslim world" is not "rising up" against the US or the west, and that if you believe that, then you've bought the Islamic Fundamentalist propaganda pretty hard. It's the extremists fundamentalists that are causing all this BS, and they don't constitute the entirety or even the majority of Muslims across the globe. There are many countries where the majority or a significant portion of the population are Muslim, and not just in the Middle East. To call this a problem with Muslims would be a very wrong(and offensive) blanket statement.

Also, religion is hardly the heart of any religious war, it's merely a tool. Sure you can probably find lots of little disenfranchised would be martyrs that think this is all about Allah and good vs. evil and all that, but at the core of everything you're always going to find the two key motivators, economics and power.

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(Maybe it doesn't matter since the Mayans think we'll all be dead on 2012 anyway.)
a common misconception, but no, the Mayans did not believe this at all. Yet another form of alarmist BS.
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  #45  
Old 03-11-2008, 11:13 PM
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Note to all Middle eastern countries.
Israel is not afraid to f you up with Tactical nukes they may or may not have.

This is all about who has the biggest dick, and as always Israel will prove theirs is bigger, and they arent afriad to show it off
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