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  #31  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:55 AM
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i like the song. very fitting....lol.

but, im no angel. ive crossed the lines plenty. its stupid to do and i know it. will it happenn again? im sure it will cause i drive far faster than i should. i do know i never crossed on blind turns though. its stupid either way. so, listen up kiddies...dont try that at home. and to all that will take my line jumping as a personal insult....im sorry.


edit - and by "plenty" i mean a handful of times. not everytime i was driving.
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  #32  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:00 AM
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That "barely one wheel" is a rolling guillotine to a motorcyclist leaning into that same corner in the opposite lane, even being completely in his own lane that one wheel will be right at eye level.
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  #33  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:45 AM
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I have mixed feelings about this. It's definitely not cool the way some of those cars were just half way (or all the way) in the other lane, but I tend to agree with Hardingsan and jC about the guys with barely half a wheel over it. I know it's especially dangerous on the dragon, but is it really necessary to label these guys as "reckless idiots" for what could really have been an honest mistake? I don't really think so.

As far as the video on the whole... I don't know who made it, and I don't want to. It kinda pisses me off that they left license plate numbers on the images. In the type of context that the producer of the video put these pictures in, that is extremely uncalled for. I mean somebody might hunt them down and might vandalize their car. Seriously though... that wasn't cool.
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2009, 07:57 AM
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I noticed this, (all the pics of cars over the line) when I was looking for our pics on the sites after I got back from the Dragon this year. I started to comment about it here, but didn't want to bring it up in case it offend someone, now that someone else has, I'll say something.

I just find it amazing anyone tries to justify it. A DOUBLE YELLOW line means you don't cross it, PERIOD. There is no discussion, that little line is the ONLY thing keeping you and the oncoming driver alive. The part about "untrained" drivers really gets me, uh do you have a license? yes? then you are trained. It's a public road, NOT a race track, guess what, no special training required.IF you can't maintain your lane, you're driving to fast, or just not paying attention, either potentially fatal. I totally agree with leaving their license plates uncovered also, maybe it'll wake them up and they won't get someone killed.
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  #35  
Old 05-12-2009, 10:29 AM
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We stopped up on Saturday to get pictures of my car, and while we were there, I got a few pictures myself of cars crossing, and not the "forgivable" slight of a couple inches, I mean the middle of the car is riding right down the center of the road. It is really sad to see that there are so many this year.
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  #36  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:28 AM
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http://www.zapatag.com/
I see nothing wrong with leaving the tags in the photos, their photos taken in public after all and there's sites like the one I listed above that allow you to post and comment on anyone's plate numbers.
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  #37  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:31 AM
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Sh*t I saw this late, but as I came through one turn someone had taken the turn up ahead COMPLETELY in my lane....i dont think he had a tire in his lane at all....REALLY?? WTF.....I'm glad Jack did that...hopefully everyone sees is before next year...
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  #38  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardingsan View Post
per the linked thread, a bunch of those pics were barely a wheel over the line, and also a good chance it was just people mis-judging the corner. so now they're branded as incosiderate boobs because of an honest mistake? granted over the line is over the line, but all these shots are taken out of context...
Barely over the line, is over the line. If that's ok with you, remind me to be in front of you at the Dragon. However, I will be the first to say mistakes happen. I've crossed the line myself as I was learning my car's capabilities and my own. So...guilty as charged. But if there's disregard for that being ok, that's when things get hairy. If there's a zero-tolerance policy on this issue, and people know they're being watched, it would happen far less. That's what this video is about. I'd be willing to bet that most of us wouldn't have any tolerance for MINI/BMW when after a head-on our airbags didn't go off. Zero tolerance....because our life was in jeopardy from someone not doing what they were supposed to do. Same thing here.

ALL of these shots are not out of context. Some, possibly, but not all. This is a problem and it will end one day in tragedy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoxieMini View Post
I have mixed feelings about this. It's definitely not cool the way some of those cars were just half way (or all the way) in the other lane, but I tend to agree with Hardingsan and jC about the guys with barely half a wheel over it. I know it's especially dangerous on the dragon, but is it really necessary to label these guys as "reckless idiots" for what could really have been an honest mistake? I don't really think so.

.... It kinda pisses me off that they left license plate numbers on the images. In the type of context that the producer of the video put these pictures in, that is extremely uncalled for. I mean somebody (i.e., Rally ) might hunt them down and might vandalize their car (i.e., cut their springs or something). Seriously though... that wasn't cool.
Once again, honest mistake, I understand. My original post was about DELIBERATELY crossing the line. However, if you're going too fast in a left turn (which most of these pics were) momentum would push the car to the outside of the lane, not the inside where most of these cars were. So, how could that be the issue here? Cars going too slow? So slow that they can't stay in their own lane? I'm not buying it.

As far as posting plate numbers, that shouldn't bother anyone for several reasons.

1. This is a public road, and TONS of other drivers/spectators can see your plate number (in public). It's on the car.

2. If you make one pass through the Dragon, you realize there are photographers at every corner taking your picture. If that doesn't motivate you to "tow the line" then you probably just don't care.

3. If I was one of those drivers, I'd be fine with my picture being taken. I would want to know if I was doing something that would endanger someone else.

This video was done as a "wake up call" to those who seemed to be asleep behind the wheel. It should offend you that people are driving the Dragon this way. Do you really care about protecting the privacy of that guy who may slam into you as you're enjoying your drive through the Dragon?
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  #39  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:03 PM
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my only issue is that on alot of the shots taken from the rear you can see 3-4 turns ahead and no one is on the road coming the opposite direction. all i'm saying is these shots are easily taken out of context. show me a rolling video like the author had in the middle and i'll agree it's lazy and reckless, but show me one still frame of a car with his wheel kissing the yellow line and call him out like he's a suicide bomber? that's just a little bit ridiculous to me.

and as far as the illegality of crossing the double yellow; what about driving the posted speed limit, using turn signals, and the like. all equally dangerous, to motorcyclist and regular drivers alike, but those offenders don't get drug out to be tarred and feathered..
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  #40  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardingsan View Post
my only issue is that on alot of the shots taken from the rear you can see 3-4 turns ahead and no one is on the road coming the opposite direction. all i'm saying is these shots are easily taken out of context.
Have you been to the Dragon? The majority of the time you can see the 2, 3, or 4 turns ahead of you clearly. It's the NEXT turn you can't see. That's the only one that matters. Some of these could be taken out of context. Once again, mistakes, I understand, but my post is about DELIBERATELY crossing the line, which happens far more often than most people realize.
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  #41  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:15 PM
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I think everyone is on the same page here, it's just the response to the video that is different.

I just find it funny how the video is posted in a way that the behavior was deemed surprising or shocking to the OP, which it shouldn't be. Crossing the yellow is no worse than going over the speed limit for most people, mainly b/c they are not involved in driving enough to know the difference. As I can almost guarantee 100% of the people that went to the Dragon broke the speed limit on the way there, why wouldn't they cross the yellow? They know no better, and shouldn't, when 75% of MINI related activities are meets or runs where again road rules are not taught or enforced.

Edit: As emphasis on the point, look how few posts there are on the NAM thread. There are more concerned/interested parties over here, which make sense since driving etiquette and technique are a focus of . People there don't care about this stuff, just where to get the new union jack license plate (zing!).
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  #42  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:46 PM
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I think it's funny that most of the arguments on NAM are that he used copyrighted materials to make the video. Seriously.... That's your gripe with it!?!?
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  #43  
Old 05-12-2009, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplygriff View Post
I think it's funny that most of the arguments on NAM are that he used copyrighted materials to make the video. Seriously.... That's your gripe with it!?!?
-G
Exactly. I feel confident that none of the photographers would have any issue with their shots being used in this way. Those guys make their living shooting that road. Safety is their #1 concern. Imagine what would happen to their income if LEO became so strict up there that people quit going. It's stupid moves like these that could lead to something that drastic.
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  #44  
Old 05-12-2009, 01:11 PM
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I drove the Dragon for the first time this year, and not ONCE did I cross the yellow. I drove within my means, and knew better. Im not sure exactly how they get taken out of context unless someone is attempting to pull into a turn off, but I dont remember any of those looking like the appropriate time to do so (ie they still couldnt see around the bend). There is absolutely no excuse for crossing the double yellow. Ill give you one mistake and then you should be slowing your ass down and making damn sure you dont do it again.

edit: perhaps people should be testing their limits during driving course instead of when you could be killing someone coming around the next corner and making excuses while doing it. Besides, driving coruses are great for anyone.
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  #45  
Old 05-12-2009, 01:17 PM
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The way I see it is don't drive beyond your capabilities. I am not as fast as many of you and probably pulled over to let several of you pass, but last I checked they weren't running time trials on the dragon. I am not in any of those pictures and It's because I drove just at the edge of my comfort zone and stayed safe. I had a blast and met a bunch of new people who understand why I like my car so much.

I plan on taking in a few SCCA events this year to get a better feel for my car in an environment where I can't harm or kill anybody else. Short and simple don't drive the way you would hate to see somebody coming toward you driving.
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