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Cornering Optimizing your suspension system.

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  #1  
Old 07-12-2007, 03:29 AM
chilipeppa03 chilipeppa03 is offline
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Default Getting fixed camber plates and rear control arms (need help with alignment #'s)

Hey guys, I am thinking about getting some new suspension parts. Right now I have Koni yellows, H-sport springs, and 18mm HandR rear sway. I want to get Ireland fixed camber plates and Ireland rear control arms. Last time I had an alingment done was like last September.
HERE ARE THE ALIGNMENT NUMBERS: (This is with koni yellows and Alta springs not H-sports)

Front camber: right: -0.3 left: -0.8

Caster: right: 3.8 left: 4.3

front toe: right: -0.03 left: -0.03

total front toe: -0.06

rear camber: right -1.1 left: -2.1 (OUCH!!)

rear toe: right: 0.27 left: 0.05

total rear toe: 0.31

Is this a bad alignment guys? What is my toe in inches not degrees?

Also with this old alignment, how should my car drive and handle?

THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO ALIGN MY CAR AFTER THE PLATES AND REAR CONTROL ARMS ARE INSTALLED:

Front:
Toe: 1/16" toe-out (total)
Camber: -1.5 degrees

Rear:
Toe: 1/16" toe-in (total)
How would the car handle after this setting?
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Last edited by chilipeppa03; 09-01-2011 at 10:08 AM..
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:05 AM
COOUUPERS COOUUPERS is offline
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Since you are getting fixed camber plates and not adj which in my opinion is the way to go when it comes to a street/spirital driven car is the way to go. You won't be able to adjust your camber in the front. For ex: IE Fixed camber plates give you a -1.25 camber on each side , add the amount of camber your springs give you and thats the camber you are going to end up with. In my case i ended up with almost -2 degrees in front.

As far as toe out, go for it if you have the money to spend on new tires really fast. I run 0 to in the front and 1/16 toe in at the rear and find this the way to go. I ran 1/16 out in the front and my tires wore out to to fast which i tihnk is a waste . When i did go back to 0 toe i really dident feel a big diffrence that would make me want to go back and waste some more tire thread =/ So its totally up 2 you. I love the rear toe in of 1/16 which you will be able to adjust weather you have controle arms or not. It really helps the rear at supporting you when you take a turn going into it hard.

I do nto have a rear swaybar which as far as lately i have been experiencing understeer cuz i have learned how to push my car a bit further ( still not a good driver though ) and with the ream camber of -0.8 i am happy. I do not like to much camber in the rear which i had before at 1.4 and running a stock sway bar and the understeer was horrible. If you like the rear camber you could get a sway bar so it will help with the understeer and plant your car bit more to the road with the -neg cam. Which i think is what would happen.

Sorry if i made this to long and i hope it helped somewhat.

-art
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2007, 03:30 PM
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This is what I try to keep mine at. Performance is reasonable and tire wear isnt too bad! I have TSW sport springs, Koni yellows, 27mm front sway, 22 rear sway, Alta rear control arms and powerflex bushings.

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Old 07-12-2007, 03:30 PM
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I wouldn't go with fixed plates. The fixed plates are for cars without lowering springs. I've been told by a few that putting fixed plates on with springs really throws the camber to a point where you don't want it. (waymotorworks.com)

Because of this combo I added adj ie plates. I think you check those out, as it allows you to control the amount of camber instead of just living with say -1.5R | -1.75L.

That would be a little annoying to me.
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilipeppa03 View Post
Front:
Toe: 1/16" toe-out (total)
Camber: -1.5 degrees

Rear:
Toe: 1/16" toe-in (total)
How would the car handle after this setting?
Those numbers look familiar.

Don't forget about rear camber!

Also, I think you've got it backwards here. How do you want the car to handle? Give me some information and I'll help you figure out the alignment settings that'll work best for how you want the car to drive.
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:18 AM
chilipeppa03 chilipeppa03 is offline
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Hey guys, I want to car to handle very netural with a hint of oversteer. I want very sharp steering response and very good straight line stabilty. Do u guys think just getting the rear control arms and a 1/16 toe out (front) and 1/16 toe in (rear) will be good enough? Are camber plates going to make that much of a difference on the street? I do want to get rid of the neg camber in the rear to make it handle better.
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Last edited by chilipeppa03; 09-01-2011 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:57 AM
chilipeppa03 chilipeppa03 is offline
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Also what can be causing my camber to be so off in the rear? I have -2.1 on the left rear and -1.1 on the right rear. A BIG DIFFERENCE!
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  #8  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:18 PM
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You don't say a thing... adjustable plates are totally useless if you don't have coilover because if you go over 1.25 degrees of negative camber the springs rub the inner mudguard.
Coilover springs are thinner and you can go over this value.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:09 PM
redskunk redskunk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
I wouldn't go with fixed plates. The fixed plates are for cars without lowering springs. I've been told by a few that putting fixed plates on with springs really throws the camber to a point where you don't want it. (waymotorworks.com)
That's questionable.. Does anyone have front camber #s for a lowered car w/o any plates? I don't think MINIs gain enough camber to make the additional "-1.25" that the IE fixed plates add overkill.. From a tire wear perspective, maybe, but certainly not a performance perspective..

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldesign View Post
You don't say a thing... adjustable plates are totally useless if you don't have coilover because if you go over 1.25 degrees of negative camber the springs rub the inner mudguard.
Coilover springs are thinner and you can go over this value.
And I'm running -2.2 w/o coilovers and nothing rubbing. Might vary from car to car and wheel specs.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redskunk View Post
That's questionable.. Does anyone have front camber #s for a lowered car w/o any plates? I don't think MINIs gain enough camber to make the additional "-1.25" that the IE fixed plates add overkill.. From a tire wear perspective, maybe, but certainly not a performance perspective..
yeah that's what i thought but this is what i was told by waylen.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redskunk View Post
That's questionable.. Does anyone have front camber #s for a lowered car w/o any plates? I don't think MINIs gain enough camber to make the additional "-1.25" that the IE fixed plates add overkill.. From a tire wear perspective, maybe, but certainly not a performance perspective..
Front camber does not change much at all through the suspension stroke. I don't think the concern here is that the IE fixed plate will introduce too much negative camber. I think the main concern is that they will introduce camber unevenly from left to right, creating inconsistent handling depending on which direction you're turning.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldesign View Post
You don't say a thing... adjustable plates are totally useless if you don't have coilover because if you go over 1.25 degrees of negative camber the springs rub the inner mudguard.
Coilover springs are thinner and you can go over this value.
They're not totally useless. They allow you to set the same camber value left to right, which is something that the IE fixed plates do not allow you to do. If you're looking to just add some negative camber haphazardly, that's fine, but if you're looking for consistent handling characteristics, it's imperative that you measure and adjust accurately.
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilipeppa03 View Post
Hey guys, I want to car to handle very netural with a hint of oversteer. I want very sharp steering response and very good straight line stabilty. Do u guys think just getting the rear control arms and a 1/16 toe out (front) and 1/16 toe in (rear) will be good enough?
I would probably go for that toe setting, but the optimal toe setting to meet your goals is also dependent on whether or not you'll be introducing any negative camber up front. Personally, I like to align for sharp turn-in and rear-end stability with neutral characteristics at the limit, and use the swaybar to adjust balance to understeering or oversteering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chilipeppa03
Are camber plates going to make that much of a difference on the street? I do want to get rid of the neg camber in the rear to make it handle better.
Camber plates will make a HUGE difference, and that difference will be more apparent on tighter corners. I'd go so far as to say camber plates are a more streetworthy mod than a swaybar, but people always seem to go to the swaybar first for some reason.
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:43 PM
JuniorMint JuniorMint is offline
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i had these on my coils and the problem was that it was really uneven from side to side. I had to get helix adj to fix the problem. I would think that if your car is true and straight the difference from side to side would be insignificant, but i know mine wasnt.

but if you still want to go this route, mine are for sale once i get a paypal set-up
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redskunk View Post
That's questionable.. Does anyone have front camber #s for a lowered car w/o any plates? I don't think MINIs gain enough camber to make the additional "-1.25" that the IE fixed plates add overkill.. From a tire wear perspective, maybe, but certainly not a performance perspective..



And I'm running -2.2 w/o coilovers and nothing rubbing. Might vary from car to car and wheel specs.
You're a lucky man! I said this because a my friend bought the adjustable plates and he couldn't set the alignement over about with the fixed ones.
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