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Cornering Optimizing your suspension system.

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  #31  
Old 07-16-2007, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chilipeppa03 View Post
I think just one control arm was replaced. I can't remember!! Well if I get all for rear control arms replaced it should fixed the problem I am sure. So I think am going to go ahead and order the Ireland racing rear control arms and powerflex front control arm bushings.
YOU THINK THIS IS A GOOD STREET ALIGNMENT:

front camber: -0.5 right and left if possible
rear camber: -1.2 or -1.5 right and left
front toe: 1/16 out
rear toe:1/16 in
caster: not sure how to measure caster! What does caster do?
I would probably go more along the lines of something like this:

Front Camber: -1.5
Front Toe: 1/16 out
Caster: Not generally adjustable

Rear Camber: -1.5
Rear Toe: 1/16 in

Caster is only adjustable in very limited amounts on a couple of camber plate setups. More positive caster (the strut is leaned towards the rear of the car) will make the wheel want to center itself more aggressively, and will multiply your camber settings when you turn the steering wheel.
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  #32  
Old 07-16-2007, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by iDiaz View Post
I would probably go more along the lines of something like this:

Front Camber: -1.5
Front Toe: 1/16 out
Caster: Not generally adjustable

Rear Camber: -1.5
Rear Toe: 1/16 in

Caster is only adjustable in very limited amounts on a couple of camber plate setups. More positive caster (the strut is leaned towards the rear of the car) will make the wheel want to center itself more aggressively, and will multiply your camber settings when you turn the steering wheel.
Thats the alignment I got yesterday when I got my PSS9's and camber plates installed...feels real good
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  #33  
Old 07-16-2007, 12:59 AM
chilipeppa03 chilipeppa03 is offline
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What front camber should I get if I dont get any camber plates? If I do get the plates I will be spending close to 1000 dollors!! Plus I do a lot of street driving so I dont want to wear my tires fast.
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  #34  
Old 07-16-2007, 01:02 AM
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What front camber should I get if I dont get any camber plates? If I do get the plates I will be spending close to 1000 dollors!! Plus I do a lot of street driving so I dont want to wear my tires fast.
Unfortunately, you can't adjust front camber without camber plates. Your tires won't wear any faster with camber plates if you don't go too crazy with the camber setting (more negative than -2.0, for example). The main culprit for bad tire wear is excessive toe (in or out), not really camber.
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  #35  
Old 07-16-2007, 01:04 AM
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ok
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  #36  
Old 07-16-2007, 01:05 AM
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ok
Whoa.
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  #37  
Old 07-16-2007, 01:10 AM
chilipeppa03 chilipeppa03 is offline
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so the bad camber in the back and worn control arm bushings are causing the car to fill twitchy on the street and highway? It also plus to the right some. It really bad when the roads bank more to the right. I am just mad that I bought stuff like koni's and springs and sway bar to make the car handle better, but in a way it is not!! Makes me kinda mad! LOL
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  #38  
Old 07-16-2007, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chilipeppa03 View Post
so the bad camber in the back and worn control arm bushings are causing the car to fill twitchy on the street and highway? It also plus to the right some. It really bad when the roads bank more to the right. I am just mad that I bought stuff like koni's and springs and sway bar to make the car handle better, but in a way it is not!! Makes me kinda mad! LOL
Yes and yes. I would probably investigate why you're still showing such a large camber discrepancy from left to right in the rear. Something tells me you might have a slightly bent upper control arm.

BTW, tell me about it... I've been working through issues with my car for a year now, trying to get things ready so I can head out to the track again. It really makes you realize why race cars are torn apart and rebuilt so often.
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  #39  
Old 07-17-2007, 02:18 PM
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I was reading H-sports article in grassroots this month, and its all about camber. They were saying that, with the mini, you dont really start reaching its potential until after -2 . BUt never go more than -3. They were doing tests compairing camber and adjusting tire pressure.

BTW. Ivan what settings are you running? What camber plates do you have? ANd why the HE(( does spike not have a thread? haha
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  #40  
Old 07-17-2007, 02:33 PM
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chase what did they say about going above the 3 degrees?
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  #41  
Old 07-17-2007, 03:01 PM
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When they dialed the camber plates to -3.5 they were "suffering from massive wheel spin on corner exit despite its limited slip differential. There was simply not enough tread touching the ground on the inside tire. Stopping distances had also increased, and we needed to adjust our braking points just to compensate." ................" A front-wheel-drive car with too much negative camber loses momentum on corner exit from wheel-spin, and this negates the benifits of incread mid-corner grip."

They tested there mini with pss9's, h-sport sway bars, and their camber plates. They were running ssr's 17x7.5 on 225/45r17 on michelin pilot sport cup tires.

Do you think some of that wheel-spin had to do with the front sway bar?
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  #42  
Old 07-17-2007, 03:18 PM
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I could easily see the wheel spin just having to do with lack of traction as they said....espcially coming out of a turn on an autocross track.

I guess a softer front sway could help though to some extent
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  #43  
Old 07-17-2007, 03:48 PM
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Also guys, how can u tell when your rear trailing arm bushings are bad? If so, should I get them replaced when I do the rear control arms and front control arm bushings?
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  #44  
Old 07-17-2007, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase View Post
I was reading H-sports article in grassroots this month, and its all about camber. They were saying that, with the mini, you dont really start reaching its potential until after -2 . BUt never go more than -3. They were doing tests compairing camber and adjusting tire pressure.
Bear in mind, this is on a track car, though. Yes, for a track car, more than -2 is suitable since the tire wear is being put to good use, but for a street car that will be driven daily, you're wasting tire wear in running that much negative camber, since you're probably only doing much cornering for a fraction of the time you're driving the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase
BTW. Ivan what settings are you running?
Front:
Camber: -1.75
Toe: 1/16 toe out

Rear:
Camber: -1.75
Toe: 1/16 toe in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase
What camber plates do you have?
RDR/Helix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase
ANd why the HE(( does spike not have a thread?

haha
Because I've been working on getting Spike back in fighting shape for the last year or so, and I don't want to start a thread for a car that is basically currently serving as a commuter due to unresolved issues. Soon, my friend.

Until then, check out the American Touge 2 thread in Trees & Twisties.
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  #45  
Old 07-17-2007, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase View Post
When they dialed the camber plates to -3.5 they were "suffering from massive wheel spin on corner exit despite its limited slip differential. There was simply not enough tread touching the ground on the inside tire. Stopping distances had also increased, and we needed to adjust our braking points just to compensate." ................" A front-wheel-drive car with too much negative camber loses momentum on corner exit from wheel-spin, and this negates the benifits of incread mid-corner grip."
This even becomes apparent above -2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase
They tested there mini with pss9's, h-sport sway bars, and their camber plates. They were running ssr's 17x7.5 on 225/45r17 on michelin pilot sport cup tires.

Do you think some of that wheel-spin had to do with the front sway bar?
Definitely. Under cornering forces, that front swaybar is basically trying to lift the inside tire off of the ground.
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