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Cornering Optimizing your suspension system.

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  #16  
Old 02-06-2006, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDiaz
Understeer is when the front tires lose grip before the fronts.
you mean before the rear right?
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  #17  
Old 02-06-2006, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CooperTrooper
you mean before the rear right?
Woops, yeah. *editing*
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  #18  
Old 02-06-2006, 07:50 PM
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I was thinking I needed to go play around some in Gran Turismo. How realistic is the MINI in GT4? I've got 3 with no BMW mini's and have been waiting for 4 to drop in price. The damn game's been out for nearly a year and it's still $50...:cussing:

So at this point maybe I should just install what I have (springs and rear sway) and see how that feels...And invest the other money in a driving school class.
_G
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  #19  
Old 02-06-2006, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplygriff
I was thinking I needed to go play around some in Gran Turismo. How realistic is the MINI in GT4? I've got 3 with no BMW mini's and have been waiting for 4 to drop in price. The damn game's been out for nearly a year and it's still $50...:cussing:

So at this point maybe I should just install what I have (springs and rear sway) and see how that feels...And invest the other money in a driving school class.
_G
That is what you should do, the driving school will be your best money spent ! From the performance side the parts you have will make you WAY happy.
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  #20  
Old 02-06-2006, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplygriff
I was thinking I needed to go play around some in Gran Turismo. How realistic is the MINI in GT4? I've got 3 with no BMW mini's and have been waiting for 4 to drop in price. The damn game's been out for nearly a year and it's still $50...:cussing:
Try the Miata. It's FR (front-engined, rear-wheel-drive), but it's really easy to rotate, and will give you a feel for oversteer and understeer. With some tuning, you can make the Toyota Vitz S a somewhat reasonable representation of how the MINI handles, if you're looking for a good FF simulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplygriff
So at this point maybe I should just install what I have (springs and rear sway) and see how that feels...And invest the other money in a driving school class.
_G
Yup. Put the sway on the mildest setting (closest to the end of the arm) and get a feel for it. Ultimately, the car is only going to do what you tell it to do, so if you're worried about how the car will behave at the limit, don't approach the limit until you're ready to find out. Put yourself in the appropriate run group/order at the Dragon, and I'm sure you'll be safe. From what I've heard, save for the first few drivers in line, the Dragon run isn't especially aggressive anyway. Don't let anyone pressure you into driving faster than you're comfortable going. Just pull over and let them pass. There's no room for egos in the canyons!

Driving school class or autocross, either one is a safe way to explore the limits of your MINI, unless you have some weird cone phobia. :p
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  #21  
Old 02-06-2006, 08:00 PM
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Oh oh, also--one of the best places to explore oversteer/understeer in GT3 is in the license tests. Find the ones where you drive in a circle, skidpad-style, and experiment there. The important thing to realize is that steering a car is not just a function of steering wheel inputs--cars can be steered with the throttle just as readily.
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  #22  
Old 02-06-2006, 08:06 PM
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Alrighty. Thanks everyone for all the info. I'm a go home and break out the old force feedback wheel and see what I can find out about a class around here.
-G
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  #23  
Old 02-06-2006, 09:24 PM
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One last thing for now... Is the car more likely to break loose with the new rear sway? I never really asked that. I was just assuming that was the case. Say, under normal circumstances I guess. I want to understand this better and be able to explain this to my wife.

Ex: If I normally take a turn at say, 25 and I take that same turn at 25 with a new rear bar what's the main difference gonna be?
-G
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  #24  
Old 02-06-2006, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplygriff
One last thing for now... Is the car more likely to break loose with the new rear sway? I never really asked that. I was just assuming that was the case. Say, under normal circumstances I guess. I want to understand this better and be able to explain this to my wife.
The car doesn't drive itself! On its mildest settings, the most you'll notice is a better-balanced car, and the option to rotate it will become available should you desire to do so. It won't spin itself out, and it won't suddenly snap out of control due to no fault of your own. Feel it out, you'll see what I mean. It's not something that mystically appears when you're in the middle of a corner, biting you in the ass. It'll transform the way the car feels in your hands at any speed, and it's not difficult to adjust your driving style to accomodate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplygriff
Ex: If I normally take a turn at say, 25 and I take that same turn at 25 with a new rear bar what's the main difference gonna be?
-G
The main difference? You'll feel like you're driving like a granny, when before, it felt like it was ready to understeer.
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  #25  
Old 02-06-2006, 09:52 PM
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Well that's what I wanted to hear. There's 1 curve I drive through on my way home and it does feel like it's gonna break in the front. It will be nice to fix that.

Thanks again for answering my noob Q's. You guys have been a great help. I'd a gotten blown out of the water for asking this on NAM.
-G
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  #26  
Old 03-22-2006, 05:33 PM
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Does having an LSD change things when it comes to having a front sway. I sorta remember hearing that it may be beneficial to get one...
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  #27  
Old 05-04-2006, 04:04 AM
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A really good article on Front & Rear bars and what they do and why ...

http://www.teamscr.com/sway.html
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  #28  
Old 05-04-2006, 06:30 AM
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[Does having an LSD change things when it comes to having a front sway. I sorta remember hearing that it may be beneficial to get one...]

Introducing a front sway bar (or thicker front sway bar) changes they way the vehicle is able to deliver power while executing a turn. As others noted, the front sway bar influences the under/oversteer of a vehicle by helping control the roll and subsequent transfer of weight. While not required, adding LSD to the equation will make the most out of adding a sway bar.

The LSD will of course allow you to prevent smoking the tire receiving the least amount of resistance during a turn and allow the vehicle to execute the turn with less drama and more grip. Generically speaking, breaking a tire free contributes to understeer as the vehicle loses traction and begins to slide. Adding LSD will reduce the chance of wheel slip and (typically - depending on the overall car setup) encourage oversteer.

Does this make sense? Hope so, I have a habit of over-involving answers for stuff like this...
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  #29  
Old 07-12-2006, 08:04 PM
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Thanx Ivan for leading me to this thread. It really helps. I will wait for my lsd before i get my front sway. And the tower bar, no real need. Someone in my thread metioned me getting a rear sway, I have got the I.E. rear sway and end links. Im waiting to get the I.E. rear control arms and front camber plates. One more thing i wanted to find out. It always talked about the 2 rear control arms. Are there 2 seperate control arms i need to replace? I am going to order the I.E., but is there another set of control arms i should get also to replace the other control arms? I dont know if that makes sense.
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  #30  
Old 07-12-2006, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase
Thanx Ivan for leading me to this thread. It really helps. I will wait for my lsd before i get my front sway. And the tower bar, no real need. Someone in my thread metioned me getting a rear sway, I have got the I.E. rear sway and end links. Im waiting to get the I.E. rear control arms and front camber plates. One more thing i wanted to find out. It always talked about the 2 rear control arms. Are there 2 seperate control arms i need to replace? I am going to order the I.E., but is there another set of control arms i should get also to replace the other control arms? I dont know if that makes sense.
One set of two arms is all you'll need. You'll want to replace the lower pair of control arms, so that you can adjust camber. The upper arms are only necessary if you want to change the rear track width. Rear toe is adjusted by sliding the front of the trailing arm laterally.
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