3rd gen MINIs

[hardingsan]

the 3rd gen has motoringfile all atwitter recently, so i thought it might be cause for some discussion here. pretty much the gist so far is same power and better efficiency through 3 cylinder engines.

Originally Posted by motoringfile

Last week we told you about the efficiency aspect of MINI’s new 120 hp engine meant for the Cooper models. However as we eluded, that engine is just part of an entirely new range of engines meant for the next generation MINI line-up.

Based on what we know so far the star of the show will undoubtedly be the 1.5L powerplant that will power the 2013 Cooper S. And we not only have the skinny on the specs but a first-hand account of the way it drives (and sounds).

First off lets talk specs. We expect power to generally remain the same around 180 bhp. Torque could be down slightly but in general performance should be identical to the R56 Cooper S. However that’s where similarities end. Like the 1.5L Cooper engine we reported on last week, the Cooper S will go from four to three cylinder and will leverage a twin scroll turbo and direct injection to produce the same horsepower as the current four cylinder model. The benefit of this downsizing is efficiency and weight. While we don’t have figures on either, we can generally expect the engine’s weight to be down and efficiency to be considerably up.

are 3 cylinders 1 too few? or is it the type of forward thinking we need from MINI to stay viable?



also saw this little teaser tucked away at the end. i'm not an expert, but after keeping an eye on motoringfile for about a year and a half now, they're not often wrong...

Originally Posted by motoringfile

Look for the next generation MINI to debut in hatch form in late 2013 as a 2014 model. A little over a year later look for the convertible version to follow with a four door Clubman (based on the R60 Countryman) to debut in 2015 or 2016.

personally, the clubman as it is is the perfect size for me (obviously). my only concern is the same one that i have with the countryman; if they make it bigger, it'll need more power to feel as 'sprightly' as the current line. so if it needs more power i need to step up to jcw, but for me jcw is just a little to pricey...

[goin440]

Isn't the Smart Car a 3 cyl?

[rlnewby]

I think an I-3 is a great idea it is after all an I-6 cut in half. We all know how good bmw I-6's are. I like that mini is thinking of weight something most companies in this segment aren't.

[Rally]

I'm gonna probably be jealous of the I3 when it comes out. Same power but with upwards of 50 mpg?! Give me that. That's awesome, and incredibly forward thinking if BMW can pull it off.

My clubman is rated for mpg's in the 20's and 30's, but I'm getting 39-42 mpg on the highway. If they rate the I3 at 50 and it's getting mid 50's or something in that range, that's astounding.

[Flamez]

I can tell you that Gabe's sources are very good & if he's wrong it's usually because somebody at MINI/BMW changed their mind. He's mentioned multiple times now that the Clubman in its current form (coupe based) is likely a one and done now. Future versions will be based off of the Countryman as you've mentioned in the first post.

I say bring on the 3's. Gabe's mentioned that the displacement is not going to change, just an increase in efficiency with 3 cylinders. Also remember that he's also mentioned that 4's will likely stay in the JCW, making that line a little more exclusive like it probably should have been all along.

[Flamez]

It's worth mentioning that our Clubman S manual averages around 34-35mpg in mixed driving and gets 40mpg on all highway trips. I'll take that from a performance car any day.

Edit: The mpg drops 1-2mpg when I drive it a lot though.

[Rally]

Originally Posted by Flamez

I say bring on the 3's. Gabe's mentioned that the displacement is not going to change, just an increase in efficiency with 3 cylinders. Also remember that he's also mentioned that 4's will likely stay in the JCW, making that line a little more exclusive like it probably should have been all along.

I'm pretty sure gabe said it WOULD change the displacement. He has it listed as 1.5L in the quote jeff posted.

[hardingsan]

Originally Posted by Flamez

...that the output is not going to change, just an increase in efficiency with 3 cylinders.

fixed, i believe.

don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking the 3-cyl. as long as it scoots, it's good for me.

i have a clubman s too. not sure what it is, as i don't beat on the car too much, but i get 28-32mpg. anything that bumps efficiency without hurting performance is a great idea in my book.

[hardingsan]

Originally Posted by Rally

I'm pretty sure gabe said it WOULD change the displacement. He has it listed as 1.5L in the quote jeff posted.

yeah, output should be similar, if not the same, displacement and mpg will change.

[AllBlack05S]

I want BMW to realize diesels would sell in the MINI. You can get fuel efficiency and performance with them.

The VW TFSi motor is a stellar example of what BMW is thinking though. Although while they may be avoiding the "BMW copies VW TFSi" by going twin turbo they may cost themselves on the torque end which VW could capitalize on with the 170hp 1.4 TFSi as a base Golf motor over here.

[MiniDaMoocher]

Be interesting to see where this goes. I don't like the idea of less torque, as I currently consider torque difficient as is. Same power, lighter and more efficient certainly seems like steps in the right direction.

[hardingsan]

Originally Posted by AllBlack05S

I want BMW to realize diesels would sell in the MINI. You can get fuel efficiency and performance with them.

i like the idea of diesel, but personally, with a 10 minute commute and at most a 25 minute highway drive twice a week, i think diesel is hype for my situation. from what i've read diesel works mainly on longer commutes, no?

but in playland, diesel efficiency with cooper s output sounds pretty nice.

[Flamez]

Originally Posted by Rally

I'm pretty sure gabe said it WOULD change the displacement. He has it listed as 1.5L in the quote jeff posted.

I don't think anything is finalized yet as I understand it, but .1L may as well be unchanged.

Originally Posted by hardingsan

fixed, i believe.

don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking the 3-cyl. as long as it scoots, it's good for me.

See my answer above.

Originally Posted by hardingsan

i have a clubman s too. not sure what it is, as i don't beat on the car too much, but i get 28-32mpg. anything that bumps efficiency without hurting performance is a great idea in my book.

You might want to check into that flash tuner (just sayin').

Originally Posted by AllBlack05S

I want BMW to realize diesels would sell in the MINI. You can get fuel efficiency and performance with them.

The VW TFSi motor is a stellar example of what BMW is thinking though. Although while they may be avoiding the "BMW copies VW TFSi" by going twin turbo they may cost themselves on the torque end which VW could capitalize on with the 170hp 1.4 TFSi as a base Golf motor over here.

The problem with bringing over the diesel for BMW/MINI is the CARB states (**** you very much California & Oregon). Since the USA & EU still don't work off the same standard, the increased development costs aren't worth it to import the current diesels especially with the current & future gas engine efficiencies. It sucks, but blame those ****ing regulators in CA. They ruin it for all of us over here (did I say **** you very much CA? ).

Originally Posted by MiniDaMoocher

Be interesting to see where this goes. I don't like the idea of less torque, as I currently consider torque difficient as is. Same power, lighter and more efficient certainly seems like steps in the right direction.

How much time do you have in the seat of a 2nd gen MINI? It's a world of difference torque-wise IMO.

[Flamez]

Originally Posted by hardingsan

i like the idea of diesel, but personally, with a 10 minute commute and at most a 25 minute highway drive twice a week, i think diesel is hype for my situation. from what i've read diesel works mainly on longer commutes, no?

but in playland, diesel efficiency with cooper s output sounds pretty nice.

The diesels do work best if you have a longer drive at a fairly steady speed, but you'd be surprised at their efficiency & the torque is the attraction to me. Go test drive the 335d and tell me that a twin turbo 2.0L BMW motor supposedly coming in a future Cooper S D/JCW/whatever is not of interest to you.

[MiniDaMoocher]

Originally Posted by Flamez

How much time do you have in the seat of a 2nd gen MINI? It's a world of difference torque-wise IMO.

I've driven a few of them and agree with you. I think the new motors are much improved over mine. But still, I'd like to see them go in the other direction.