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  #1  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:07 PM
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Default P-Car Dilemma....

Today, one of my neighbors next to my business transported a 911S up from Florida. Turns out he just bought it a few days ago from an elderly gentleman who was the original owner. Space is somewhat of an issue in our neighborhood. He has a two car garage thats being occupied by a MINI convertible and a Cayman in each bay. I offered to help out and now have his new acquisition stored in my shop...

Turns out he is thinking of selling it.... I'm somewhat interested...

So here's the deal...
It's a narrow body 1975 911S yellow and black interior, repainted factory color code...
The original 2.7 has been replaced by a 3.0
Factory Fuchs wheels
Sun roof, no air, manual trans (third gear syncro is a little slow)
Aftermarket crap radio...
Door cards are showing wear, the seats have been redone, sun visors look like deflated sausages, dash has a small crack up by the defroster vent....
The mileage is 67,000 miles
No rust and no accident...
I suspect the Florida sun has caused most of the cosmetic repairs

He wants $19,500

Is this a decent price for a 38 year old vehicle?

I'll take some pictures tomorrow...

Any thoughts? Any areas to be looking at since I'll be able to climb all over it and under it at the neighbors insistance while it's in my shop?
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2013, 09:16 PM
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Took some crappy Iphone pic's today....

IMG_3462.jpg

IMG_3463.jpg

IMG_3464.jpg

IMG_3466.jpg
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2013, 09:35 PM
Anarchy Anarchy is offline
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I have no idea if the price is right, but an yellow Porsche, with that seats

It's a beautiful thing.
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:42 AM
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can't see the pictures but if it's a long hood 911 (which it should be as a 75) then it will only go up in value. the 2.7 is a problem child engine so a 3.0 replacement is a good deal.

i'd knock the dust off it imo.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:54 AM
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I'd do it. Fix the few quibbles over time and enjoy it. At that price, and if in decent shape, it's an investment that should be able to provide a decent return.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:07 AM
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I'm hardly a Porsche value specialist, but here's my 2 cents given the exposure I have had to the exotic/premium auto industry.

It's difficult to find a 40 year old 'investment' car that can be had for that kind of money that will see a significant increase in value. I would imagine (again, I am no except) things such as the engine swap, full respray, and handful of other imperfections will not help it gain a higher value, even with an ever decreasing number of solid cars of this gen on the road. While it sounds to be in phenomenal condition given it's age (and looks beautiful), it's still not perfect.

With that said, I know very little about this generation 911, so frankly there could be a large cult following for that particular car and/or the motor it has, and that would help it's value very much. However my point is this; I would NOT buy with the idea the value you will go up. With a decent demand for the car, and the assumption you will maintain it properly, I could see it retain it's value, but don't count on more. From what you posted, it doesn't sound like thats your idea at all, but just keep this in mind.

I have seen far too many people buy a car they think is a steal and will be a valuable collectible, only to be very disappointed once time to sell.

Hopefully some of that helps you, just better to error on the side of caution than not. GL with your findings and if you purchase the 911, drive the hell out of it.

EDIT: Also, just FWIW, $19k seems a bit on the high side for this car. Some better exterior photos would be great.

Last edited by Sketch; 03-06-2013 at 06:13 AM..
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:04 AM
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Sketch's advice is good. Don't buy to make money, buy for the experience. It's going to require work, maintenance, fixing etc. I WILL BREAK. Then you'll learn about fixing it. That's the fun. you'll have to learn to drive a rear-engined car (and spin it, hopefully without hitting something). You'll have to learn how to drop the engine, weld, prep bodywork etc etc...

I don't know what it would cost in 'Merica, but in Australia, an engine rebuild wouldn't cost less than $15,000...and easily go higher very quickly. Though the SC engine is known for how tough it is, it only takes some poor or incorrectly performed maintenance to ruin someone's day...

The cars that are going to be valuable are locally-delivered, matching numbers cars that are restored to their original spec, and are limited edition-types. However, the upside of getting a 'pedestrian' model is that you can have fun with it. Say, convert it to a hot-rod like a 911R or something like that..(see Magnus Walker video below...)

BTW - It's not a long-hood. Has the impact bumpers.

A good place to trawl is here:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/

I've been looking at classic Porsches as well (Almost bought a '79 SC, which your 3.0 engine is probably out of). Be careful, because engine work can't get really expensive. But For us it's about a long-term project. Like having a new member of the family.

Here's some good links:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/tech...uthrie_faq.htm
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...repurchase.htm
http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/911tech_articles.htm

(seeing as it's in your shop-space, I assume you'll have a lot of time to inspect it).

Essential books (I've lived and breathed these books for the last month, I love them!!):
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...c_pg1.htm#item
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...HOL10c_pg5.htm
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...HOL10c_pg7.htm

Some inspirational videos (that will result in you wanting a classic Porsche):
http://vimeo.com/44410797
http://vimeo.com/57909173
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQ4hQSusjE

And, finally - can you spot why I didn't buy the last 911SC I was looking at?:

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Old 03-06-2013, 11:23 AM
Weemann Weemann is offline
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What he said ^ don't buy to make money... buy to have it, if at the end it makes some more dollar its a bonus, if not at least you've had a great experience.... although $19000 is a little steep... try $17,500 then maybe meet in the middle
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:12 AM
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GRM has a 911 project car. They had a motor rebuild in the last issue and the costs were phenomenal. They did a bunch of DIY work and just did a basic rebuild and it was 5500. I looked up what I could source that labor/parts for in socal and it was easily 7000-10000.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:01 PM
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Thanks Tit and everyone else that responded with their suggestions and opinions.... I appreciate it very much...

My intention was not to buy it as an investment and or "flip" it.... More so to buy a classic Porsche design in the 911 and nurse it back to something nice to have and drive.... However after looking as some of the $$ for new or used interior parts and realizing the $$ I could need to drop with any engine work that might be needed on a 38 year old vehicle.... Well, I.m going to pass.... The body is in really nice condition with no evident rust.... It's just scary expensive it seems to do any kind of engine work on these cars.... The 2.7 engine went out around 40,000 miles and the 3.0 was put in I believe from a 78... with the current miles at 67,000 miles, it seems like a somewhat low risk on the engine side...

Anyway... Thanks guy's for the suggestions...
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2013, 03:52 PM
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I love it. If i had the money i would definitely be investing in a 964 or other classic 911
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:38 AM
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I personally think the reward justifies the costs. You just have to be financially and emotionally prepared for it...
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tit View Post


I personally think the reward justifies the costs. You just have to be financially and emotionally prepared for it...
Agree...
I sat the wife in it... She was fine with me getting it.... Financially it wasn't an issue....
But I know for sure, if $7,000 and $10,000 engine bills started showing up then the emotion would have started creeping into the equation.... I certainly would have enjoyed replacing all of the sun damaged interior parts and bringing it back to a "like new" condition. Enjoyment of the journey kind of thing...

It will still be sitting in my shop for a while.... I'm toying with the idea of taking it to a Porsche mechanic to have the engine health evaluated..... So who know's.... I have swings.... Back and forth on it..... I gave my decision to my neighbor so he could move it if he gets the opportunity...

I'm probably 6-8 years away from retirement and the selling of my business.... I see a new P-Car in my future.... instead of the customary gold watch....
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:13 PM
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do yourself a favor and pick up the grm with the engine rebuild article. It had some info in there i didn't know... specifically regarding head studs and failures.
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:29 AM
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Yep - trashed head studs on the SC engines is super common. Look for things like the hydraulic chain tensioners being installed (if the engine's been transplanted, it would be a surprise if they hadn't been put in). Get a leak-down test and that should give you a good idea of the health of the engine.

This book (linked before) has a good PPI section, including evaluating engine health:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...HOL10c_pg5.htm

This series of youtube vids of the 'Autobahn Imports' 911 Engine rebuild is pretty good. Enough to fool me into thinking that I could do it myself!

https://www.youtube.com/user/Autobah...ow=grid&view=0

(they are a bit difficult to watch in order, but they are all there)

Quote:
Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
do yourself a favor and pick up the grm with the engine rebuild article. It had some info in there i didn't know... specifically regarding head studs and failures.
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